FAQ: How Real ID will affect you

CNET/News.com ^ | 6 May 2005 | Declan McCullagh

[af_vet_rr]

Starting three years from now, if you live or work in the United States, you'll need a federally approved ID card to travel on an airplane, open a bank account, collect Social Security payments, or take advantage of nearly any government service. Practically speaking, your driver's license likely will have to be reissued to meet federal standards.

The Real ID Act hands the Department of Homeland Security the power to set these standards and determine whether state drivers' licenses and other ID cards pass muster. Only ID cards approved by Homeland Security can be accepted "for any official purpose" by the feds.

In exchange for federal cash, states must agree to link up their databases. Specifically, the Real ID Act says it hopes to "provide electronic access by a state to information contained in the motor vehicle databases of all other states."

[monkeywrench]

If it conflicts with the Constitution, it's un constitutional.

[AgThorn]

Here's a good writeup on ID card use, failure, success, etc. around the world. Although the article is some 9 years old, it's a good collection of data on this subject:


http://www.privacy.org/pi/activities/idcard/idcard_faq.html#1

[AgThorn]

If it conflicts with the Constitution, it's un constitutional.

It doesn't, so it isn't.

[monkeywrench]

Yes it is, so it does.

[Old Dirty Bastiat]

I just like being able to travel without permission from Fedgov. You are correct that there are many other nations which have less freedom than we do, but the fact that they have have something in common with fascists and communists is not something for them to be proud of. Don't make John Kerry's mistake of assuming that we should copy everything the Euroweenies do. I doubt Kim Jong Il is proud of me; I condemn every one of his transgressions against human dignity and freedom- even the transgressions he shares with Euroweenies.

[cgbg]

This national database will be for identification purposes only, will be impossible for hackers, criminals, corrupt politicians, bureaucrats, motor vehicle employees, and foreign spies and terrorists to access.

Right? :-(

[Ronaldus Magnus]

Didn't all of the 19 terrorists in the 2001 attacks have valid identification cards? How would these new invasive measures do anything to protect us from terrorism?

[logic]

How did that quote go..... Those who would sacrafice some liberty for a little security deserve neither?

[Gideon7]

Ben Franklin

[AgThorn]

I just like being able to travel without permission from Fedgov. You are correct that there are many other nations which have less freedom than we do, but the fact that they have have something in common with fascists and communists is not something for them to be proud of. Don't make John Kerry's mistake of assuming that we should copy everything the Euroweenies do. I doubt Kim Jong Il is proud of me; I condemn every one of his transgressions against human dignity and freedom- even the transgressions he shares with Euroweenies.

With logic like this we better stop using spoons and fork to eat if that's what they use in any fascist countries! ;-)

Sheesh ... just wish that the conspiracy theorists would get a reasonable arguement together ... so tired of hearing this 'brownshirts' or 'fascist' arguement against a national ID.

Let me help you ... why not make your arguement against the national database rather than just the ID.?

[Dumb_Ox]

An internal passport is an identification document issued for the purpose of allowing or restricting the movement of citizens within their country. Examples of countries that used or use internal passports include the former Soviet Union (see propiska) and, currently, North Korea. Internal passports were used by the Soviets to control where a citizen could live, work or receive medical treatment. All residents were required by law to record their address on the document, and to report any changes to the relevant Ministry (e.g., by the age of 45, a person has to have three photographs of himself in the passport due to the effects of aging, taken an the age of 16 (when it is issued), 25 and 45). In Ukraine, these laws were struck down by its Constitutional Court in 2001 on the grounds of unconstitutionality. In Russia, similar cases have so far failed, and the system remains in place, although largely reduced.

Who won the Cold War again?

Wasn't there some suggestion floating around after 9/11 that people who forge IDs for underage drinkers provide the infrastructure for terrorists?

[tahiti]

"Sorry, but although an "impost" usually means something monetary it is not restricted to that. It simply means 'something that is imposed'."

"The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises,"

The clear and unambigous textual meaning of the word "imposts" pertains to "monetary."

" On the contrary, preventing illegal immigrants from getting a state drivers license before 9/11 would have saved 3000 lives."

"3000 lives" would have been saved had our national Congress not enacted unconstitutional legislation (Amendment II) "prohibiting" versus "regulating" private property owners, the airlines, from inviting their customers to bring their "arms" onboard to assist in the security of their property and other passengers lives from the threat of hijackers.

Forgery of ID documents to prove citizenship for illegal immigrants to obtain state driver's licenses will be the next cottage industry for crimminals to be involved in.

"With more and more states attempting to make drivers licenses legal for illegal's, and the drivers license being the only ID this country requires domestically, these two facts alone made the national drivers license necessary."

Interesting that you have called the Real ID Act a "national drivers license."

The Act only requires "national" standards for the issuance of state driver's licenses.

There is no credible evidence to suggest that "national" standards will be effective in preventing potential terrorists or illegal immigrants from obtaining state driver's licenses with forged ID documents, as is also the case concerning illegally obtained Social Security numbers and cards as well.

That being the case rights "retained by the people" cannot be denied or disparaged. Amendment IX.

"Sorry, Judge finds for the Plaintiff ... next case."

The Senate Democrats would have no problem "confirming" you has a federal judge.

[Hank Rearden]

From the article/FAQ, only three Republicans voted against this idea Reps. Howard Coble of North Carolina, John Duncan of Tennessee, and Ron Paul of Texas.

Thank God for those three; I knew for sure Ron Paul wouldn't fall for this crap.

[HiTech RedNeck]

This is like shooting a squirrel with an elephant gun.

Why not create a special Federal card for flying. Leave driving out of it. This is big brother cubed.

[af_vet_rr]

On the contrary, preventing illegal immigrants from getting a state drivers license before 9/11 would have saved 3000 lives. You have NOT made your case that there is not a 'common defense' arguement here.

9/11 shouldn't even be an issue here for two reasons :

Having traveled extensively both while in the Air Force, and afterwards, well before 9/11, I've seen many American screeners, that I wonder if they would be able to handle the cash register at a McDonald's, let alone security for an aircraft. Having flown in and out of Israel many times reinforced this. Screeners doing their jobs would have prevented 9/11, regardless of any kind of ID.

Number two, and most important, politicians have been pushing for a National ID and Database long before 9/11. The Patriot Act didn't spring out of thin air, nor did this. These things go back many many years, and while most can be traced to democrats, many had the support of Republicans.

[longtermmemmory]

Just FYI DL databases are already sharing data for purposes of DL suspensions.

This is not as new as the hystrionics may have us think.

I think an important provision is the requiremtn that the DL for tourists and immigrants is connected to their visa expiration. (of couse some B1/b2 visas are good for ten years)

[af_vet_rr]

There will be plenty of States which will not "link DB's"--and it's irrelevant anyway, as the FBI's DB on criminals is national, already.

I actually don't have a problem with the FBI's DB on criminals. I have a problem that many believe we should all be in there, regardless of whether we have done anything or not.

[af_vet_rr]

Most far reaching will be this national database. Guess what DB's do best? They grow at rates that would shame a whole fleet of rabbits. This DB will be a nice place to build profiles. The possibilities are endless (and scary).

We've seen the beginnings of this in Chicago and Maryland. Maryland is a good example - during the sniper attacks a while back, various police agencies were wanting to investigate every single gun owner they could turn up. I remember an article about various Chicago politicians and law enforcement personnel, wanting a way to find everybody that might be armed.

You talk about profiles - five, ten years from now, or further out, as this thing grows, pertinent information will be added, even if it's outside of the original scope, such as gun ownership "hrmm, umgud belongs to the NRA according to their credit card receipts, and they subscribe to Guns & Ammo, we need to put them on a special list".

Hell, you could set off a flag if your traveling somewhere, if this thing grows like we expect it to (and only somebody who hasn't been around the government and has no clue about what goes on in Washington, would think that this thing wouldn't grow).

I don't know what's scarier, what something like this could ultimately become, or the people who trust the politicians and can't comprehend what this sort of thing could become.

[Doctor Stochastic]

Actually the 19 hijackers had 57 valid ids between them.

The new version will make it much easier to get counterfeit papers. Not only that, these papers will be more valuable as they are already being accepted by posters here.