Posted on 05/05/2005 2:16:05 PM PDT by jennyp
MARIETTA - The Cobb school board will apparently have until the end of the month to excise more than 34,000 evolution disclaimers inserted in science textbooks now that the 11th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals denied its request to wait on removing the stickers until the appeals court hears the case.
On Jan. 13 Federal District Judge Clarence Cooper ruled that the school board's decision to post stickers that call evolution "a theory, not a fact" into school books violates the separation of church and state and had to be "immediately" removed.
After hearing a Cobb high school science supervisor complain that removing so many stickers would disrupt classroom instruction, Judge Cooper agreed to postpone the removal date to a week after school ends on May 20.
However, on Jan. 17 the school board voted 5-2, with board Chairwoman Kathie Johnstone and Laura Searcy dissenting, to appeal the case to the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals on the proviso that the board's attorneys, the Marietta law firm Brock Clay, would represent them free of charge in the appeals process.
Moreover, Brock Clay filed a motion for stay on the sticker removal order until the court of appeals heard the case. That motion was denied Tuesday by Circuit Judges Joel Dubina, Frank Hull and Charles Wilson.
Marietta attorney Michael Manely, who, along with the American Civil Liberties Union, defended the plaintiffs in district court, said that to get a stay, it has to be proven that the case is likely to succeed on its own merits.
"This showed it's not likely to prevail," Manely said. "It's the first serious nail in the coffin from the Court of Appeals. They are expressing their preliminary thoughts on the subject. This is like a preview of what is certain to come. It tells the board that this corpse is beginning to smell really bad."
Manely, who turned over the case after Judge Cooper's ruling to Atlanta attorney Jeffrey Bramlett, a past president of the Atlanta Bar who is with the firm Bondurant Mixson and Elmore, said he expects oral arguments to be heard mid summer with a possible ruling this fall.
Manely said the school board could appeal the denial of the motion for stay, but to do so would be unlikely because the decision would go before all the judges on the 11th Circuit, whose decision would strongly influence the case's outcome.
"I'm disappointed," said board member Lindsey Tippins, who said he still wanted to go forward with the appeal.
"I think we have a valid case because the district judge said he found no intent to establish religion."
Board Vice Chair Dr. Teresa Plenge also said she wanted to proceed.
"If we don't proceed, we will be turning several hundred thousand dollars of tax payer money to the ACLU in punitive damages and it's costing us nothing because we're getting legal counsel pro bono," she said.
Dr. Plenge said Cooper's opinion could hold the school board liable for legal fees and an undetermined amount for the ACLU.
Manely estimates that legal fees could top $200,000.
According to the school system, the board spent about $74,000 in legal fees in the first case. Glenn Brock, a principal in Brock Clay has estimated the appeals cost at $25,000.
Asked what she plans to do now, Dr. Plenge said, "I guess we have to take them out. They're stuck, so it's going to be messing with the inside cover of the book."
School staff has already experimented with removing the stickers, using such things as nail polish. Removing so many stickers will not be easy, she said.
"I'm going to offer to help take out the stickers," said east Cobb parent Jeffrey Selman, who filed suit against the school board in August 2001, along with the ACLU, claiming the stickers were unconstitutional.
"I bet I can get a whole bunch of people to help them," Selman said. "God bless the judges. They can see right through this sham."
The stickers were first approved in March 2002 after the board received a petition signed by more than 2,300 residents who opposed science textbooks the board was adopting due to the evolution content.
"I think this is a serious issue and I'm anxious to hear the 11th Court of Appeals decision," Dr. Plenge said. "It's an issue that has been debated across the county and I think it's important for us to get a legal decision that tells us which is the right way to go. We thought we were doing the right thing, but then we were told we weren't. I think we need to have clear boundaries for all school systems," she said.
Brock Clay attorney Linwood Gunn, who is representing the board in the case, did not respond to a request for comment, while school system spokesman Jay Dillon said he has not heard of the court's decision.
It is a religion when you cannot mention any facts that disprove it. It's not that much different from being able to say anything against Mohammad. You might end up with your head cut off. In this instance you may get sued out of existence.
You mean there is no harm except to the Taxpayer who will have to pay for the putting one and taking off and putting back on. There is harm, sorry there just is.
They could just take a black permanent marker, and black it out. Makes more sense than trying to remove it. I guess nobody thought of that, though.
There aren't any facts that disprove it.
It's not that much different from being able to say anything against Mohammad.
Only a few posts into this and already people are comparing a scientific theory to Islam. Good Grief.
You might end up with your head cut off.
I am not currently aware of anybody that has gotten their head cut off because they disagree with the Theory of Evolution. The church has, however, burned people at the stake for coming up with other scientific theories. Don't throw stones when in a glass house.
In this instance you may get sued out of existence.
Nope. They are just telling them to remove their stupid, ignorant stickers.
Let 'em tear off labels. Just make sure those that do the removing are those that don't want them in the books. Have it video-taped for posterity.
You are leaving out half of the content of the sticker, and most of the content of what I said. Pretty much par for the course in these discussions. Let me try this again...
The sticker says "evolution is a theory, not a fact". While true, it is misleading. By this definition, no scientific theory is valid, since no scientific theory ever becomes a fact.
You have a very strange concept of the meaning of 'worship'. The judge ordered the school to remove an ignorant and misleading sticker from school textbooks. That is not called 'worship', it is 'reason'.
This sticker is intended to counter the all too frequent glib speculations about naturalistic origins (that everyone is exposed to constantly) which come off incorrectly as matters of fact.
Yes, but unless the petitioner demonstrated that the harm is grave enough to be "irreparable" then it doesn't meet the standard for a stay. A stay is supposed to be fairly unusual and not granted easily. The ACLU is trying to spin the denial of a stay as a huge win for them, but it shouldn't be. They could win the case, of course, but the denial of a stay isn't quite the landfall they want us to think it is (and that most FReepers seem to agree with them that it is.)
Finding a dinosaur and a human in the same geological strata, with no explanation of how the dino could have gotten there, would be a beaut. No way to explain that with the theory. Crash.
Please mention a "fact" that disproves evolution.
And what business is it of a federal court as to what the content of a sticker is? The only jurisdiction under which the federal court is supposedly invovled in this matter is due to some sort of congressional law establishing a religion or prohibiting the free exercise of religion. Name the religion.
If the publisher included the disclaimer would this be an issue?
(You might end up with your head cut off.
I am not currently aware of anybody that has gotten their head cut off because they disagree with the Theory of Evolution.)
I'd appreciate it for the sake of integrity not to pull my words out of context. The context of my "You might end up with your head cut off" comment is reagarding criticism of Islam (you may be aware of the Dutch incident. If not, please read up).
The fact is there are many questions that are asked about evolution have not been answered (there have been a couple of threads about those questions just today - I don't want to be unsportsmanlike and cut and paste pages of text and take your time to read them if you don't want to). Some evolution teachers, in order to sidestep the conspiracy, have said that they will not entertain questions about evolution as they are there to teach about science and they do not play a role in the spiritual education of the students. They very cleverly equate asking questions about evolution (requesting answers about FACTS) to spiritual issues.
The theory of evolution is a religion as well.
It is definitely NOT science, at least based on the three tenets of science established by Francis Bacon: observability, repeatability, and verifiability.
If a particular study does not pass ALL three rules then it CANNOT be regarded as scientific fact, only theory.
*Sigh*. There is no evolutionist union.
This sticker is intended to counter the all too frequent glib speculations about naturalistic origins (that everyone is exposed to constantly) which come off incorrectly as matters of fact.
I can read. This was all over the news when they did it. It was part of an attempt to get creationism taught in the classroom. First get the disclaimer on all of the science books, then offer an alternative.
Evolution is not about 'glib speculations', but about evidence. If anybody is claiming that the Theory of Evolution is a fact then they need to take another look at how they say things. Is it a valid scientific theory? Yes. Does the evidence support it? Yes. Is it a scientific fact? No.
Christianity, in this case. The purpose of those stickers was to try to discredit a valid scientific theory, leaving the way open to introduce creationism into the classroom as an alternative "theory". The proponents of putting the stickers on the books in the first place said as much.
I have no problem with religion being taught in school. I'm not talking about religious indoctrination, but teaching information about the various religions in the world, including Christianity. Kids should know more about our own culture, and it's roots in Christianity. They should also know about other cultures, and their religions as well. I have a problem with it in science class. It is not science, and does not belong there.
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