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To: Judica me
JP II (the Great):

1. Transitional papacy which slowed and then halted termite trends of "progress."

2. Named a college of cardinals which elected B-16.

3. Suppressed the "liberation" theologians with the able assistance of Cardinals Ratzinger and Dario castrillon de Hoyos.

4. Stripped Hans Kung of status as "Catholic" theologian.

5. Disciplined Edward Schillebecx, OP, for his deviations on theology.

6. Disciplined those who resisted papal authority over naming and consecrating of bishops. I really don't like to see people who are very much like me punished for bad tactics, but how else to vindicate the very necessary institution of papal authority. We suffered through John XXIII and Paul VI. We get to celebrate their successors.

7. Opened the door to a restoration of the Tridentine Mass with Ecclesia Dei.

8. Published the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

9. Performed brilliantly in concert with Ronaldus Maximus and the Iron Lady in laying waste to the soviet Empire.

10. Was, by far, a more eloquent defender of innocent human life than any of his recent predecessors.

11. Engaged the enthusiasm of many young people who have acceopted Catholic standards of morality on life issues as a reslt.

12. Achieved an effective de facto alliance with Muslim and Third World nations in resistance to the United Nations and the Hildebeast on abortion at international conferences.

13. Answered Stalin's historic question: How many divisions has the pope?

14. Has seen an uptick in orthodox Catholic priestly vocations whose lib-left mentors at seminaries endlessly whine about the orthodoxy of their students.

15. Labored under fiercely antagonistic circumstances from entrenched but rapidly aging Kumbayas and a militantly secular world, among, ummmm, other forces.

16. Was human and accomplished much but failed often enough to remind us that he was human.

17. Showed us how to live.

18. Showed us how to die.

Others may feel free to add to the list.

282 posted on 05/03/2005 7:27:15 AM PDT by BlackElk (Dean of Discipline of the Tomas de Torquemada Gentlemen's Club)
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To: BlackElk

I suspect that JPII will also be credited with a large surge of adult conversions beyond the ECUSA-dropouts.

VERY large, and multi-national, and in the next 12-36 months.


285 posted on 05/03/2005 7:31:03 AM PDT by ninenot (Minister of Membership, TomasTorquemadaGentlemen'sClub)
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To: BlackElk
1. Transitional papacy which slowed and then halted termite trends of "progress."

26 years is not a transition.

2. Named a college of cardinals which elected B-16.

I hope you are right on this one. But the jury is still out.

3. Suppressed the "liberation" theologians with the able assistance of Cardinals Ratzinger and Dario castrillon de Hoyos.

That's the minmum a pope should do. Anything less would, I imagine, be unacceptable to God.

4. Stripped Hans Kung of status as "Catholic" theologian.

See # 3.

5. Disciplined Edward Schillebecx, OP, for his deviations on theology.

See # 3.

6. Disciplined those who resisted papal authority over naming and consecrating of bishops. I really don't like to see people who are very much like me punished for bad tactics, but how else to vindicate the very necessary institution of papal authority. We suffered through John XXIII and Paul VI. We get to celebrate their successors.

See # 3.

7. Opened the door to a restoration of the Tridentine Mass with Ecclesia Dei.

The door was never shut.

8. Published the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

What was wrong with the previous one?

9. Performed brilliantly in concert with Ronaldus Maximus and the Iron Lady in laying waste to the soviet Empire.

What about consecrating Russia to the Immaculate heart of Mary as requested by Our Lady?

10. Was, by far, a more eloquent defender of innocent human life than any of his recent predecessors.

Not really fair to his predecessors since mass murdering of unborn children is a fairly recent phenomenom.

11. Engaged the enthusiasm of many young people who have acceopted Catholic standards of morality on life issues as a reslt.

I disagree. Exmaples, please.

12. Achieved an effective de facto alliance with Muslim and Third World nations in resistance to the United Nations and the Hildebeast on abortion at international conferences.

Effective in what way?

13. Answered Stalin's historic question: How many divisions has the pope?

What was the answer?

14. Has seen an uptick in orthodox Catholic priestly vocations whose lib-left mentors at seminaries endlessly whine about the orthodoxy of their students.

I have not witnessed this.

15. Labored under fiercely antagonistic circumstances from entrenched but rapidly aging Kumbayas and a militantly secular world, among, ummmm, other forces.

But did he win?

16. Was human and accomplished much but failed often enough to remind us that he was human.

Every pope to date has been human.

17. Showed us how to live.

Don't understand???

18. Showed us how to die.

Don't understand?

301 posted on 05/03/2005 8:08:17 AM PDT by Judica me
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To: BlackElk

A good list. I would expand a bit more on no. 17, "Showed us how to live." I believe John Paul was an inspiring example of personal sanctity, for some, the only such example they had ever been exposed to. This is why there was such a huge outpouring of emotion at his death, much to the consternation of our schismatic friends.


308 posted on 05/03/2005 8:14:56 AM PDT by Thorin ("I won't be reconstructed, and I do not give a damn.")
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To: BlackElk; dangus

Dear BlackElk,

I think a number of your points can be summed up as, "He planted seeds."

He planted a lot of seeds. He planted them, I think, strategically and with great purpose.

Like you, I see the newer priests being ordained now as decidedly more orthodox than those ordained in the 1960s and 1970s, and even a bit beyond. Even more importantly, I see that the younger priests are often more unapologetically orthodox than the older, orthodox priests.

I wonder whether part of the crisis in the episcopacy was driven by a lack of sufficient numbers of priests who were, 1.) administratively competent, 2.) truly orthodox, and 3.) even moderately pastoral.

I look at Cardinal Law, who personally appeared to be very orthodox, but who was criminally incompetent.

Perhaps Pope John Paul the Great saw that there was a dearth of folks to raise to the episcopacy, and understood that it was his job to plant the seeds of orthodox vocations that would eventually grow into priests who were both competent and orthodox enough to become bishops.

Certainly, when one looks at the picture painted by Michael Rose's book, one can see significant improvement in many seminaries in the last 15 years.

As well, looking at the other major problem from the hierarchy, the scandal, one can see that even as the news of the wide-ranging effect of the scandal became known, the actual problem had been dramatically reduced.

I hate to drag him into this conversation everywhere I go, but dangus has done a great job of looking at the statistics of the abuse scandal. It seems to have peaked in the mid-1980s. One year showed in the mid-1980s, I think, over 900 cases of abuse! But move ahead a decade to the mid-1990s, and one sees a reduction in the number of new cases by about 95%.

Although John Paul the Great did not make public what was going on, apparently something was done during his pontificate that reversed a trend begun in the 1950s, and dramatically reduced this horrible scourge.

As for the laity, lots of seeds have been planted. I see them all around me. The most devout, most orthodox folks with whom I go to church are also the younger ones. My age or younger. I am personally one of those seeds planted by John Paul the Great. At his election, I could most charitably be described as a less-than-fully-informed-and-thus-less-than-fully-orthodox Catholic.

I'm still working on getting informed. But his example and his obvious love for us made me, compelled me, to want to be a better, more orthodox Catholic, to be in complete unity with the Church and her teachings. I will, of course, credit first the grace of God in this, but clearly, it was our late Holy Father who was the channel of this grace.

So, I think that's a big part of what John Paul the Great did. He planted seeds.

Some of those seeds have come to fruition. We will have to wait for others. I think the years ahead of us may surprise us.


sitetest


325 posted on 05/03/2005 8:39:56 AM PDT by sitetest (If Roe is not overturned, no unborn child will ever be protected in law.)
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