Tiger's Out This Week. No Bull.

Newsweek ^ | 04/25/2006 | Steven Levy

[r5boston]

It's Steve Jobs's plan to make this the Week of the Tiger. But Bill Gates and his minions at Microsoft are crying bull—specifically, a Longhorn steer. Despite the zoological bent, this dust-up is not about animals, but operating systems; Apple and Microsoft just happen to have named each of their major system upgrades after beasts of the realm. This Monday, Bill shows off the future of Windows, a.k.a. Longhorn, at a developers' conference. The oohs and aahs may be tempered by the fact that the hundreds of millions of Windows users won't get their hands on it until holiday season, 2006. (Unless it's even later.) On Friday, Jobs proudly presents the latest Macintosh OS X upgrade, named after that big striped cat that he always seems to have by the tail. When can the 25 million Mac users get their hands on Tiger? This year. This month. That day. Growwwl.

That's a big point for Apple in the latest matchup in high tech's equivalent to the rivalry between the Yankees and the Red Sox. Both companies seem to understand what's really necessary and really cool for the next stop in desktop computing: support for the powerful new generation of 64-bit chips that are coming online; search capabilities built in, so you can mine your own documents as smoothly as Google scans the Web; a suite of persistent, constantly updated tiny applications that keep track of stuff like weather and stock quotes. A way to take advantage of the hot RSS technology that lets you "subscribe" to Web sites instead of visiting them every day or two. And a sleek appearance that relegates the traditional file-and-folder metaphor to the antique shop. Both new systems go a long ways toward making that big step.

[cmsgop]

I got Mine! well very soon that is............

[Hat-Trick]

Meanwhile, in other technology news, IBM's iSeries customers were still running their businesses on the 7th generation of fully integrated 64-bit Operating System and processor technology.

[Prince Charles]

Sssshhhhhhhh. Safari 2.0 bump.... ;-)

[John Valentine]

For crying out loud, the first post out of the gate was a MacMoonie slamming on someone else.

You're talking about this one, right? -- "This Monday, Bill shows off the future of Windows. Next week, hundreds of thousands of Mac Users will show off the future of Windows."

This is hardly a slam. More like a little jab. And if you ask me, it really isn't even that. It looks like fair comment to me. The comment is meant to say that Windows Longhorn, when it arrives, will have borrowed heavily from the Mac OS.

Do you really doubt that?

[js1138]

As for ignoring XP64, is XP64 considered a consumer OS, or is it more along the lines of a server or specialized OS?

XP64 will be a consumer OS. Server 2003 already has a 64 bit version.

It will be a couple years before consumers see a big difference in performance. Programming techniques need to be altered, drivers written. All this on top of the switch to dual core CPUs.

[John Valentine]

And by the way, the post you complained about didn't use perjorative expressions like "MacMoonie". The kind of crap I'm complaining about is the kind of crap you are guilty of.

[general_re]

Gimme a break - it isn't "discussing a new or improved feature of a Mac with hardly a reference to the other side of the street" when you're comparing the two in order to demonstrate the superiority of your choice. That's just BS.

[general_re]

Someone call the whaaambulance. Spare me the poor, put-upon oppressed Apple user routine - the problem is your blatant double-standard. That kind of thing is a "fair comment" or a "little jab", but the minute you guys hear something similar in return - in RETURN - it's nothing but sniveling about how mean and nasty those other guys are, invading your threads like that. If your first post was even remotely accurate, and you guys spent much time at all discussing the merits of yor choice without bashing on someone else, you probably wouldn't have that problem, but it isn't true, and you do, and I'm really not interested in witnessing yet another demonstration of the Reality Distortion Field, where you guys play this "who, us?" game. Get real.

[John Valentine]

Hey, that's MY quote you are throwing at rlmorel, and it WASN'T directed at the article. It was referring to the comment posters.

If your position were taken to heart, no article that discussed any issue where values or competing positions were compared would be posted. Now, THAT'S truly BS.

And where in this article is there even the slightest hint that the author is "demonstrating the superiority" of his choice, or even what his choice actually is.

And, aren't you the one that tossed out that "MacMoonie" remark?

I can't see any reason why you should be taken seriously.

[John Valentine]

Here's what I can't figure out:

Why are you even here? Don't you have anything better to do? Can't you go play some video games or something?

[rlmorel]

Come on. Don't call my comments BS. I am trying to have a civil conversation with you. I didn't think I was being nasty to you, I was saying the guy just *might* have a valid point. Even if he doesn't, there is enough there to be arguable, that is all I am saying. And he (poster #5) wasn't even being very objectionable either.

Let your skin be just a bit thicker. I think there are many mac advocates you can direct your displeasure at, #5 didn't really seem to be one of them, in my opinion.

[avenir]

Good points. A neighbor of mine has a 90's M3 and I went for a ride in it recently. When he found a safe stretch he nailed it and it was like the WHOOSH! you get from a modern roller coaster. I laughed out loud in glee.

At times you'll hear a Mac afficionado claim that Apple is the BMW of computers. I dispute this because one has to be thoroughly steeped in the Apple mythos to believe that the Mac offers an essentially "other" computer experience, on the level of exhilaration.

Apple has a better corporate identity shell, but they aren't offering quantum leaps in user experience analogous to an M3 vs. Intrepid.

[solitas]

Nice; but I'll wait until all the 'gamma testers' (i.e. those who just have to rush out and buy the newest things) have discovered all 10.4's 'inconsistencies'. :)

[solitas]

Nice; but I'll wait until all the 'gamma testers' (i.e. those who just have to rush out and buy the newest things) have discovered all 10.4's 'inconsistencies'. :)

[general_re]

Puhleeze. I'm sorry, but I'm not interested in supporting this delusion that the Mac users just hang around amongst themselves, innocently swapping tips and tricks to make OS X go, along with trading recipes and discussing crocheting techniques, or whatever it is I'm supposed to believe. Until - da da da duuuummmmm - those damned barbarian Windows hordes jump into their innocent, sweet, sunshiney threads, stomping all over poor hapless, helpless Macolytes with their insults and derision.

Once again, get real. That kind of thing is most definitely a two way street, and you all give as good as you take, so spare me. Ain't nobody here got clean hands, and that's a fact.

[general_re]

I am trying to have a civil conversation with you.

Okay, fair enough. My apologies. Nevertheless, whether you think #5 is appropriate or inappropriate, the notion that one "side" or another is completely innocent is just plain ludicrous. Sorry, but there it is.

[solitas]

You wanna play with 'Dashboard'? Take a look at: http://www.konfabulator.com/

Same stuff. Nice toys. Pretty. Some are useful. Most are fun. But, "can't get along without 'em": no.

[pageonetoo]

Puhleeze. I'm sorry... stomping all over poor hapless, helpless Macolytes with their insults and derision.

Personal description? Sounds like it, the way you whine, and try to hijack Mac threads.

As a Mac user for 20+ yrs, I can safely say that you are out of your league, boy! Only intelligent, beautiful people pefer Macs! Barbarians always take the low road...

...innocently swapping tips and tricks to make OS X go,..

We have Macs. We don't need tips to unlock our files, or get our sys to reboot! We just like to brag about having the best thing since sliced bread, without needing a degree in Computer Technology, or needing to call for the IT guys!!! We get to use our toys! Your Windoze machines are probably all right, but they sure do catch a lot of bugs!

[Swordmaker]

Just to be very clear, I was specifically referring to alleged "bashing" by comment posters.

I have long thought that there was a distinct dichotomy between the civility of Mac users on MS threads and vice-verse. This was just a casual observation that Mac users on Windows' threads, aside from comments such as "Buy a Mac" in response to problems on MS Windows computers, were generally fairly helpful and polite compared to MS Windows users on Mac oriented threads.

I decided to check and see if my casual observation was actually fact.

I did a Free Republic search for both "Windows" and "Microsoft" and read the first 18 threads I found dealing with Windows' security and OS issues. I then did a similar search for "Macintosh" and "Apple" as well as "OSX" and read the first 18 threads also dealing with Macintosh's security and OS issues.

I tabulated comments in each thread that I deemed were "invading" the thread (Mac is better than Windows in Windows threads, or Windows is better than Mac in Mac threads). I noted comments in three categories: mild, moderate, and insulting. Those which I deemed "mild" were those in which a platform advocate made reasoned commentary about their preferred platform and compared it to the subject platform. Those that commented denigrating the subject platform with ignorant or outdated mis-information, I deemed "moderate". Finally, comments attacking or denigrating the users of the subject platform, I deemed "Insulting". These judgments were subjective on my part... but I attempted to be totally fair.

The findings were eye opening.

Microsoft Windows Threads: In the 18 threads dealling with problems or OS issues of Microsoft Windows, I found 33 pro-Macintosh comments out of 944 comments in the threads. Those comments accounted for a mere 3.5% of all comments. Of those comments, 19 (2%) were of the mild "Buy a Mac" type, 14 (1.5%) were of the "Windows sucks and you should buy a Mac" category, and 1 was an outright insult to Windows users. Incidentally SIX of the 18 threads had no pro-Mac/Anti-Windows comments (although there were were Windows users slamming Windows in all but one of the threads!)

Four of the 18 Windows articles mentioned Macs in the body of the article... and naturally there were more pro/anti Mac comments in those particular threads by about 3 to 1 over articles that did not mention Macs.

Interestingly, 16 of the 944 comments in the Windows threads were gratuitous slams against Macs... 1.7%... and four of them were outright insults to Mac users themselves.

Apple Macintosh OSX Threads On the 18 Macintosh threads, which were for some reason more active than the Windows threads with 1563 comments. In those 1563 comments, 230 (an astounding 14.7%) were pro-Windows/anti-Mac comments! Of those, 89 (5.7%) were of the mild "Windows can do the job better" or "I prefer to use Windows because there is more depth to the software" type. 112 (7.2%) were of the moderate type, repeating out-dated or mis-information about Macs as gospel truth. There were 29 (1.8%) outright insult comments attacking or denigrating Mac users as" Gay", "Liberal" or "scraggly, goateed, artsy, hippies."

Going the other way in the Mac threads, 2.4% of the comments (38) were anti-Windows. Of those, 29 (1.9%) were mild and 9 (0.6%) were moderate... and there were zero insults/attacks of Windows users. Examining these, it is apparent that most are responses to the attacks and/or mis-information pushed by the Mac thread invaders (I hesitate to use the term "Trolls"). In five of the Mac threads, comments had been deleted by FR moderators due to abuse of Mac bashing invaders... nowhere was this found on the MS Windows threads surveyed.

The evidence is in. Windows "Microsofties" are far more insulting and invasive of Mac threads than "Macmoonies" are of Windows threads.

[Proud_texan]

Hehe, I wrote an article in, um, ~1986 about how the Mac and PC debate reminded me of the Ford vs. Chevy debates of the 50's.

While there are objective metrics that can be debated they still end up being subjective to the needs of the user.

And I just love all the slames on operating systems. I wonder how many of those making the slams have written one? I have, well, sort of, it's core is "leveraged" '80's Minix and Unix code, couldn't do it all myself and it's about as flaky as anything you've ever seen, wouldn't wish it on anybody else, but it's just a hobby anyway, don't use it for anything serious, that'd be insane of me. Well, maybe just trying is insane but that's another story.

My hat is off to any company that can write an OS that can actually boot the 3 billion permutations of hardware out there.