BREAKING: Charges Dropped Against Army Reservist Accused Of Holding Group of Illegals At Gunpoint

KFYI - 550AM - Phoenix, AZ via PHXNews | 21 April 2005 | KFYI Hound

[Spiff]

KFYI is Reporting:

CHARGES HAVE BEEN DROPPED against Army reservist Patrick Haab who was accused of holding a group of illegals at gunpoint.

[NewRomeTacitus]

HUMAN TRAFFICKING! THIS allows all of us to make citizens arrest.

Exactly, and we actually have the civic duty (does anyone remember that concept?) to do so when we recognize such evil brazenly paraded in our faces. But for the grace of God it could have been your family subjected to those circumstances. All that's required is that you state loudly enough for surounding people to hear "I'm making a Citizen's Arrest." If the arrested individual doesn't comply you do not have any powers to enforce, but can compell those witnesses present at your declaration of arrest to testify under the law (if they won't voluntarily do so).

If this is news to you that proves how we've been led down a primrose path of blind trust. Lawyers don't "own" the law and don't actually have any more power than we do. They just depend on you believing so.

NRT now opens the floor to the first weasally attorney who begs otherwise.

[Dan Evans]

What the perp here included multiple VIOLENT felonies. It's like the difference between a ticket for jaywalking and vehicular homicide.

The "perps" were the illegals. Did they commit violent felonies?

[occutegirl]

If there is ever an military invasion of the US, I have dibs on Patrick Haab patrolling my neighborhood.

[ClintonBeGone]

In America, jury selection favors the defendant.

How so? I believe both sides have an equal number of preemptory challenges - in addition to the sanity requirement.

[wardaddy]

that would be green bologna

[Dan Evans]

How so? I believe both sides have an equal number of preemptory challenges

In most states the defense has more. And unlimited challenges for cause. How do you think O.J. got an all-black jury?

- in addition to the sanity requirement.

That's another reason. People who think our out-of-control immigration policy is normal have to be insane.

[gatex]

"....Aliens do have rights...."

Here is a 1990 U.S. Supreme Court Case for the discussion.

link to ---UNITED STATES v. VERDUGO-URQUIDEZ, 494 U.S. 259 (1990)

Quote from case --"(e) Respondent's reliance on Reid, supra, is misplaced, since that case stands only for the proposition that United States citizens stationed abroad could invoke the protection of the Fifth and Sixth Amendments. Similarly, those cases in which aliens have been determined to enjoy certain constitutional rights establish only that aliens receive such protections when they have come within the territory of, and have developed substantial connections with, this country. See, e. g., Plyler v. Doe, 457 U.S. 202, 212 .

"Respondent, however, is an alien with no previous significant voluntary connection with the United States, and his legal but involuntary presence here does not indicate any substantial connection with this country. The Court of Appeals' reliance on INS v. Lopez-Mendoza, supra, is also misplaced, since that case assumed that, but did not expressly address the question whether, the Fourth Amendment applies to illegal aliens in the United States.

"Even assuming such aliens - who are in this country voluntarily and presumably have accepted some societal obligations - would be entitled to Fourth Amendment protections, their situation differs from that of respondent, who had no voluntary connection with this country that might place him among "the people." This Court's decisions expressly according differing protection to aliens than to citizens also undermine respondent's claim that treating aliens differently under the Fourth Amendment violates the equal protection component of the Fifth Amendment. Pp. 269-273. "

[ozzymandus]

Saw this story on FOXnews. Between this and the BP honcho bad-mouthing the Minutemen, I'm getting a pretty low opinion of the BP, at least the higher-ups.

[Dan Evans]

Immigration is NOT a state matter unless congress allows it to be.

Citizens and local cops can enforce immigration law. We are here talking about just such a case.

[Dan Evans]

At that point the threat to him was over. At that point he had no legal right to FOLLOW THEM TO THE SUV and point his gun at them.

Yeah he did. They were criminals. Why can't you understand that?

[Robert Lomax]

Personally Marine, I think the use of deadly force should be authorized.

[oceanperch]

I have been following FR illegal threads for about two years.

UPDATE. Regardless of what Pres. Bush is saying to the media I think States are taking on the problem, and thanks to those keeping it in the news, with level headness.

I often check the County jail roster and this is the first time I have seen two local arrests in are small PNW oceanside community that are INS HOLDS.
HMMM Why all of a sudden is INS holds showing up. Also how many other areas are they doing holds.
Here is one of the two in our County Jail. I did a cross ref. with FBI most wanted and they were not listed.

Here is the one:
ACOSTA-HERNANDEZ, PEDRO SID: 13824073 LODGED
Lodged: 02/17/2005 14:44 Max: 04/28/2005
Arrest: INS Type: DETAIN Docket: INS Hold Auth: INS
Charge Bail Status Next Court Release
1 INS HOLD NO BAIL HOLD
Arrest: LINCOLN CO Type: WARRANT Docket: 043643 Hold Auth: LINCOLN
Charge Bail Status Next Court Release
1 SEX REG AD (PROB VIOL) SB1145 04/28/2005
3 CON SX MIN (PROB VIOL) REVOJ 04/28/2005
Arrest: LINCOLN CO Type: WARRANT Docket: 13824073 Hold Auth: SUPERVISOR
Charge Bail Status Next Court Release
1 PARO VIOL NO BAIL PSANC 04/15/2005

[oceanperch]

Oops I stand corrected there is more than 2 INS Holds. I will add that all other serious crime has risen here also non related to illegals. Just to be fair.

Here are the other ones:

CASTRO-MARTINEZ, ISAAC SID: 11775542 LODGED
Lodged: 04/02/2005 15:14 Max:
Arrest: LINCOLN CI Type: WARRANT Docket: 050289 Hold Auth: LINCOLN
Charge Bail Status Next Court Release
1 DEL SUB BF 250000 PRETRI 04/25/2005 09:30 CIRCUI
2 DEL SUB BF CO BAIL ARR 04/25/2005 09:30 CIRCUI
3 CONSP BF CO BAIL ARR 04/25/2005 09:30 CIRCUI
4 CONSP BF CO BAIL ARR 04/25/2005 09:30 CIRCUI
5 POS SUB CF CO BAIL ARR 04/25/2005 09:30 CIRCUI
6 POS SUB CF CO BAIL ARR 04/25/2005 09:30 CIRCUI Arrest: INS Type: DETAIN Docket: A97762847 Hold Auth: INS
Charge Bail Status Next Court Release
1 INS HOLD HOLD


DORANTES-LOPEZ, OMAR SID: 15309106 LODGED
Lodged: 04/11/2005 18:04 Max:
Arrest: NEWPORT PD Type: WARRANT Docket: 034963 Hold Auth: LINCOLN
Charge Bail Status Next Court Release
1 ASSA IV DV (PROB VIOL) NO BAIL ARR
2 HARASS (PROB VIOL) CO BAIL ARR
Arrest: NEWPORT PD Type: WARRANT Docket: C043121CR Hold Auth: WASHINGTON
Charge Bail Status Next Court Release
1 POS SUB CF 55555 HOLD
2 FAL IN OFF CO BAIL HOLD
Arrest: Type: PROBABL Docket: 051530 Hold Auth: LINCOLN
Charge Bail Status Next Court Release
1 DEL AF AT 40000 PRETRI
2 DEL AF AT CO BAIL PRETRI
3 POS SUB CF CO BAIL PRETRI
4 ESCAPE III CO BAIL PRETRI
5 RESIST ARR CO BAIL PRETRI
Arrest: INS Type: DETAIN Docket: Hold Auth: INS
Charge Bail Status Next Court Release
1 INS HOLD HOLD

GABRIEL-LUNA, NAHUM SID: 12737820 LODGED
Lodged: 01/24/2005 15:57 Max:
Arrest: INS Type: OTHER Docket: A78157597 Hold Auth: INS
Charge Bail Status Next Court Release
1 INS HOLD NO BAIL INS
Arrest: NEWPORT PD Type: PROBABL Docket: 051076 Hold Auth: LINCOLN
Charge Bail Status Next Court Release
1 SEX PEN I 175000 PRETRI 05/02/2005 09:30 CIRCUI
2 SEX AB I CO BAIL PRETRI 05/02/2005 09:30 CIRCUI
3 SEX AB I CO BAIL PRETRI 05/02/2005 09:30 CIRCUI

That is 4 INS Holds out of 130 inmates.

Hmmm What is going on in other counties here in the PNW? The farthest reaching corner from the Southern Border.

[Tarantulas]

At that point the threat to him was over. At that point he had no legal right to FOLLOW THEM TO THE SUV and point his gun at them.

Yeah he did. They were criminals. Why can't you understand that?

Please explain to me how he knew they were criminals. What action had they taken that violated the law? It's not illegal to run in the desert, nor is it illegal to speak Spanish. So what State or Federal violation of the law could he possibly have noticed that would have allowed him to threaten to use deadly force against these guys?

The County Attorney made it clear that this guy slipped past by the skin of his teeth. Sgt. Haab had no way of knowing any of those people were illegals. If they had been a legitimate group of travelers with up to date passports, our valiant Sergeant would still be sitting in a jail cell waiting for his prison sentence. He screwed up big time, fell into the pig slop and just by the grace of God came up smelling like a rose.

Sgt. Haab has not done us any favors. I will now expect the ACLU to find a group of Spanish speaking American citizens, dress them up like illegals, then have them run through various places and try to get some idiot to accost them at gunpoint the way Haab did. The whole scene will be caught on tape and played over and over on the mainstream media channels while the lefties demonstrate and protest and whine. And some poor dope who's only trying to help his country will be sent to prison for his troubles. If anything at all happens here in Maricopa County, Arizona, the County Attorney will be forced to take action. He let Sgt. Haab get by because he found some violations of laws AFTER THE FACT that justified his actions. The next guy to try this is not going to get by with it.

[azhenfud]

Thanks again for the ping HJ.
As I wrote elsewhere, this is good news - afterall the reservist has held more true to his oath to defend the US than Arpaio who has now had his fifteen minutes of grandstanding. True patriots ought to kick his butt out of office and let him never again serve any higher than a subordinate floor sweeper in animal control..

[azhenfud]

"What puzzles me about the story is that even after their confrontation was over, the perp continued the encounter after they had retreated into their vehicle."

The perp was the felon smuggler and the reservist had every right to stop him using whatever sufficient force was necessary to subdue.

[Beckwith]

Contact Sheriff Joe Arpaio

[azhenfud]

"I wonder if Haab can be sued in civil court for what he did?"

ONLY if the perps are exhonorated. But it appears they may be guilty.

[Spiff]

Oh sure, the very appearance of racism (but remember that hispanic is not a race) or ethnic profiling is a far worse crime than breaking and entering our country during a terrorist war and all of the myriad crimes which criminal invaders have committed. In this case the reservist observed correctly that these people were criminal invaders and that at least one of them was a felonious human trafficker.

You know, I thought that only Democrats and other leftist loonies put political correctness ahead of the safety and security of Americans. But there is a wing of the Republican Party who does the same. Interesting that you're also a big fan of that RINO Arpaio who endorsed leftist Democrat Janet Napolitano for Governor. Birds of a feather...

[azhenfud]

"Sheriff Appreciation Letters"?

ROTFLOL! It would appear an Army reservist more seriously observes his oath to "protect and defend the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic" than does that Sheriff.

Seeing both have sworn oaths to duty without specific exception, the Sheriff should be taken to task for the apparent negligence of his.