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Habemus papam: the new Pope needs our prayers
The Telegraph (U.K.) ^ | 04/20/05 | Leader

Posted on 04/19/2005 3:13:15 PM PDT by Pokey78

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To: killjoy
Doesn't take much to get y'all going, does it?
41 posted on 04/19/2005 11:12:13 PM PDT by Mill John Stuart (Habemus 'possum)
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To: Campion
What are libertarian worshipers of their own bellies?
42 posted on 04/19/2005 11:45:36 PM PDT by Mill John Stuart (Habemus 'possum)
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To: Harmless Teddy Bear
One would have to say that Pogo is a bit more than a children's book. It's clearly for adults, and one of the most respected, and thoughtful comic strips of all time. What is Gala about? You're definitely right about the freak part, though. I guess that goes with the territory.
43 posted on 04/19/2005 11:52:12 PM PDT by Mill John Stuart (Habemus 'possum)
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To: Knitting A Conundrum
Somehow my earlier reply did not get through. You seem to raise a serious question, deserving a serious answer. I saw a priest in Nicaragua who ran schools, churches, womens' centers, and reconciliation meetings between Contras and Sandinistas. He would travel on foot and by mule with a group of lay workers hundreds of miles throughout the countryside around the town of Waslala. He spent something like 150 days on the road each year establishing the link between the Catholic Church and the tiny communities in the nearby mountains. His perspective came from the tradition of Vatican II and liberation theology. He said we should see the face of Christ in the face of the shoe shine boy. People worked with him who were both Sandinista and Contra and everything in between. His people served as "delegates of the word" in the tradition of the Christian Base Communities of Liberation Theology. Ratzinger's crackdowns and censures were directed against people like him, people who clearly had great faith in the church, who were clearly within the house, and were building it and holding it together. Yes, you would have to say that in driving people like these out of the Church, Ratzinger was creating and giving life to the very heart of darkness, he is ostensibly fighting against.
44 posted on 04/20/2005 12:09:00 AM PDT by Mill John Stuart (Habemus 'possum)
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To: Mill John Stuart

"Just because we are conservative"

We?

"doesn't mean we are anti-modernist, does it?"

Modernism has a specific definition within the context of Catholicism. See the writings of Saint Pius X.

"What are American democracy"

America is a republic, not a democracy.

"capitalism"

Capitalism is not an "ism." It's just the way people act when they are free. Goes back as far as history.

"the bill of rights"

The Bill of Rights is grounded in Natural Rights philosophy, which does not fall under the heading of modernism as the term is used in the Catholic Church.

"internet blogging"

The Soviet union had its samizdat; the French revolutionists had their pamphleteers, and in earlier ages information was passed by word of mouth.

BLogging is just a more efficient way to do what has always been done.


45 posted on 04/20/2005 1:17:42 AM PDT by dsc
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To: Killborn; Knitting A Conundrum
They removed the comment, but not the poster.

46 posted on 04/20/2005 2:37:00 AM PDT by MeekOneGOP (There is only one GOOD 'RAT: one that has been voted OUT of POWER !! Straight ticket GOP!)
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To: dsc
Explanatory note on the graphic:

One of Dana Carvey's characters, shown here on the right, was "the Church Lady" who had a fictional cable access show (cf. "Wayne's World") called "Church Chat".

The character was drawn from life, according to Carvey; ladies of his family's church who said things like "some people only come to church when it's con-VEEN-ient" and rhetorically wondering whether some malfeasance or other-- short skirts or unwed snuggling-- was caused by-- "could it be...SATAN!?"

Of course, it could be, but is more often our own Adamic nature that really needs no supernatural impetus.

Which explains why I, a serious Christian of the Baptist brand, enjoyed "Church Chat" :)

47 posted on 04/20/2005 2:39:11 AM PDT by ExGeeEye (Belgium! (4/29!))
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To: Pokey78
God Hears our Prayers, he has chosen well for the good of all
48 posted on 04/20/2005 6:13:59 AM PDT by lillybet
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To: ExGeeEye

"Of course, it could be, but is more often our own Adamic nature that really needs no supernatural impetus."

I find it very hard to know how to know.

IMB, since the fact that we have a sinful nature is attributable to Satan, all sin is due in a way to his influence.

I don't imagine that Satan is imminently present every time a minor sin is committed, but he precipitated the events that led to it.

Then, too, he has a lot of help. A whole army of angels was cast out of Heaven with him, right? What we Catholics used to refer to as Satanum aliosque spiritus malignos: Satan and the other malign spirits (that wander the world seeking the ruin of souls).

I sometimes hear liberals arguing in favor of abortion on demand, and at such times I have no sense of Satan's presence or any reason to suspect it...but can we say his influence is absent?

As I said, I find it very hard to know how to know what might be direct influence, and what is just the influence of the wrongheaded ideas he introduces into the world.

Talking about it makes me want to say the prayer to the Archangel Michael (which I know Baptists don't do).

Sancte Michael Archangele, defende nos in proelio;
contra nequitiam et insidias diaboli esto praesidium.
Imperat illi Deus; supplices deprecamur: tuque,
Princeps militiae coelestis, Satanam aliosque spiritus
malignos, qui ad perditionem animarum pervagantur in
mundo, divina virtute in infernum detrude. Amen

Saint Michael the Archangel, defend us in battle;
be our safeguard and protection against the wickedness
and snares of the devil; may God rebuke him, we humbly
pray; and do thou, O Prince of the heavenly host, by
the power of God, thrust into hell Satan and all evil
spirits who wander the world seeking the ruin of souls. Amen.


49 posted on 04/20/2005 6:38:47 AM PDT by dsc
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To: Mill John Stuart
My sole assertion stands, that you (for whatever reason) reject a simpler and more benign explanation: the discouragement (what you call "suppression" -- a condition which no longer obtains, given the state of worldwide communications in 2005) of the teaching of error is done to fulfill the two great commandments.

For the record, since my comment went to the issue of motive, I never asserted that Ratzinger had somehow succeeded in stopping the teaching of every known or conceivable error among a billion or so Catholics.

Feel free to take that debate up with someone else.

50 posted on 04/20/2005 7:06:19 AM PDT by aposiopetic
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To: MeekOneGOP

He's dead now.


51 posted on 04/20/2005 7:45:37 AM PDT by Killborn (Cardnal Joseph Ratzinger --> Pope Benedict XVI: God bless and keep him. May he reign in greatness.)
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To: Killborn

He's still alive:

http://www.freerepublic.com/~milljohnstuart/


52 posted on 04/20/2005 7:48:38 AM PDT by MeekOneGOP (There is only one GOOD 'RAT: one that has been voted OUT of POWER !! Straight ticket GOP!)
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To: MeekOneGOP

Whoops. I could have sworn he was dead. Anyway, what's the VK consensus?


53 posted on 04/20/2005 7:56:14 AM PDT by Killborn (Cardnal Joseph Ratzinger --> Pope Benedict XVI: God bless and keep him. May he reign in greatness.)
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To: Killborn
I expect he will step in a bear trap soon enough. :)

54 posted on 04/20/2005 8:10:50 AM PDT by MeekOneGOP (There is only one GOOD 'RAT: one that has been voted OUT of POWER !! Straight ticket GOP!)
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To: MeekOneGOP

Sounds good. :)


55 posted on 04/20/2005 8:23:54 AM PDT by Killborn (Cardnal Joseph Ratzinger --> Pope Benedict XVI: God bless and keep him. May he reign in greatness.)
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To: Mill John Stuart
One would have to say that anyone who gets their theology and philosophy from the funny pages is a few bricks shy of a load.

Thankfully your new Pope seems to take his from the Bible.

56 posted on 04/21/2005 4:52:17 PM PDT by Harmless Teddy Bear (The quiet ones are the ones that change the universe. The loud ones only take the credit)
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To: dsc
Considerable hairsplitting over what is conservative, a democracy versus a republic, and what is an 'ism. As an aside on the issue of capitalism, you seem to be applying the famous American Catholic buffet approach of embracing a moral perspective that the pre-modernist Church condemned (usury)and that John Paul II, and Benedict XVI criticized (free market neo-liberalism) even as you join them in condemning things you find objectionable.

In a conventional historic or cultural sense of modernism the American political system(whatever you choose to call it), certainly the French revolutionary pamphleteers, the Bill of Rights and and the Rights of Man would come under the heading modernist. Freedom of expression, forbidding the establishment of a state religion - These are clearly enlightenment ideas. Of course there are continuities between Medieval and modernist thought, in this conventional sense. Parts of Aquinas could stand on either side of that line.

Seems that aside from the fussing about definitions, the substance of your comment lies in Pius X's injunction against what he considered to be modernist heresies (65 of them!)in the Catholic Church around the beginning of the 20th Century - the Lamentabili Sane and his oath against modernism that was imposed on several generations of Church leaders. This is actually quite interesting, and indeed helpful, in understanding the historical context of Ratzinger's denunciation of modernism. Apparently the Holy Office kept dossiers on church leaders suspected of modernist deviations, including at least two who later became Popes. The current Pope Benedict XVI's namesake - Benedict XV and also John XXIII. John insisted on reviewing his file after becoming Pope and returned it to the Holy Office with the bemused note "Yes, but now we are infallible." It is also interesting how Ratzinger played enforcer both against Liberation theologians, which is not surprising, and also against strident anti-modernist Society of St. Pius X. The shifting tides in Catholic orthodoxy argue against allowing any faction to capture the apparatus of the Church and use it to drive out what it deems to be heretical. This is something that Averroes, the Moslem anticipator of Aquinas' project of reconciling philosophy and revealed truth, observed. Many ideas that were once banned as heretical were later accepted, so the religious institutions have not been able to say with any timeless certainty what is heretical. It undermines the authority of anyone (even a Pope) who would try to use means besides persuasion to define the parameters of the faith.
57 posted on 04/21/2005 7:40:27 PM PDT by Mill John Stuart (Habemus 'possum)
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To: Mill John Stuart

"you seem to be"

I'm not even going to waste time on that.

Here's a clue: most people on FR have been around long enough to have seen every device you try to employ in that post, and to become heartily tired of them.


58 posted on 04/21/2005 10:16:15 PM PDT by dsc
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To: dsc
As an anti-modernist you do have to do some philosophical gymnastics to embrace capitalism.

With respect to all those devices you recognize, again I am flattered.
59 posted on 04/22/2005 8:19:47 PM PDT by Mill John Stuart (Habemus 'possum)
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To: Killborn
Y'all should know that 'possums are champs at playing dead, and then popping right back up when it suites 'em.
60 posted on 04/22/2005 8:25:36 PM PDT by Mill John Stuart (Habemus 'possum)
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