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WE HAVE A POPE!!! (Cardinal Ratzinger-Pope Benedict XVI)
MSNBC

Posted on 04/19/2005 8:53:39 AM PDT by Rutles4Ever

WE HAVE A POPE!!!


TOPICS: Breaking News
KEYWORDS: benedict; benedictxvi; catholic; catholiclist; conclave; nextpope; pope; ratzinger
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To: Dominick
Dominick -- I was mistaken! (See post 2900) Another freeper correctly pointed out that I confused "Catholicism for Dummies", which he attested is excellent, with "The Complete Idiot's Guide to Catholicism", which turns out to be the moronic book I confused with the Dummies book. Mea culpa!
2,901 posted on 04/20/2005 7:51:25 AM PDT by utahagen
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To: mware

I'll be looking at EWTN for a video or DVD, and also for a print of the new Pope. There were some great pictures put up on this thread - hopefully some will be in mass production within a few days.


2,902 posted on 04/20/2005 8:31:05 AM PDT by Tax-chick (Pope Benedict XVI: The Rat-Zinger!)
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To: DannyTN
There certainly was a lot of speculation that would be the case. But I'm glad the cardinals don't look to the prophecy to fill the role. You would think that he would be aware of the prophecy and that could certainly influence the selection of the name Benedict. However, that's a little frustrating in that you want to see prophecy fulfilled without people taking action to fulfill it after being aware of it.

I really wish I could understand what you’re saying. No matter how many times I read it, the above makes no sense. What I am saying is that the reason Ratzinger chose the name was in an attempt to validate the prophecy.

As far as your blog’s interpretation, have you even read Malachy's prophecies? The prophecies are short and they are all numbered. The last reads as follows, "In persecutione extrema S.R.E. sedebit Petrus Romanus, qui pascet oves in multis tribulationibus: quibus transactis civitas septicollis diruetur, & Judex tremêdus judicabit populum suum. Finis. (In extreme persecution, the seat of the Holy Roman Church will be occupied by Peter the Roman, who will feed the sheep through many tribulations, at the term of which the city of seven hills will be destroyed, and the formidable Judge will judge his people. The End."

There is absolutely nothing about a city with no walls, Russia invading Israel or anything else about which you speak.

Further, The Gloriae Olivae simply translated means “the Glory of the Olive”. It was the Benedictines who insisted this pope would come from their order. Others have felt it referred to a pope that would come from Israel, a Jew. (The Olive Mount) or a peace-maker (the olive branch.) As you must be aware Jean-Marie Lustiger is a Jew, many thought he would be appointed. Ratzinger’s taking of the name Benedict seems to be his own attempt at keeping with the prophecy. He is neither a Benedictine or a Jew.

Benedictine, as your blog implies, does not stand for peace, per se. The Olive reference has to do with the traditional symbol of the Benedictine Monks, the olive or the olive tree, since they made (among other things) olive oil. The blog that you stumbled upon appears to have more to do with conspiracy theory and subjective interpretation than the actual language of Malachy’s text.

Here is an original source. http://www.catholic-pages.com/grabbag/malachy.asp. It helps if you understand Latin.

2,903 posted on 04/20/2005 10:11:47 AM PDT by N. Beaujon
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To: All

We Love You, Holy Father. We will miss you. And We Thank You!


2,904 posted on 04/20/2005 10:16:57 AM PDT by amdgmary (Please visit www.terrisfight.org and www.theempirejournal.com)
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To: blu
Wow! Are you 1/2 psychic? I live in a small town in extreme NW MI! I tell ya, our archdiocese needs some work....

Hey! You know we don't believe in psychics! ;o)

I think we may have happened thru your town Sunday before last and stopped in for Mass.

2,905 posted on 04/20/2005 11:26:30 AM PDT by iconoclast (Conservative, not partisan.)
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To: Howlin
So it's okay to express things like that?

Absolutely!

It's some of the things that I'm hearing supposedly fellow Catholics say that is getting under my skin.

2,906 posted on 04/20/2005 11:31:22 AM PDT by iconoclast (Conservative, not partisan.)
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To: iconoclast

I just didn't want to offend anybody!


2,907 posted on 04/20/2005 11:35:00 AM PDT by Howlin (North Carolina, where beer kegs are registered and illegal aliens run free.)
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To: sully777
A little humor, it's like catholic church services kneel...stand...sit...kneel...stand...sit...kneel...stand....sit...take two shots...kneel...sit...

=P

2,908 posted on 04/20/2005 11:48:28 AM PDT by Zeppelin (Ripping good laugh - http://www.zeronews-fr.com/flash/70s.php)
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To: N. Beaujon
"What I am saying is that the reason Ratzinger chose the name was in an attempt to validate the prophecy. "

I understood, and it's entirely possible that's why he chose the name. I was questioning whether he fulfilled the prophecy in any other sense. And I will be dissapointed if this is the only way he appears to fulfill the motto.

The prophecies are short and they are all numbered.

Not according to the following site, which is the same site you linked to. If you look at the third column. That's the original numbering. Notice that it ends in 111. The paragraph about Peter the Roman is not numbered, which has led to speculation about whether Peter the Roman is the same as Gloria Olivae and whether Peter the Roman is officially a pope. The first two columns have been added and are not part of the original prophecy.

Malachy Prophecy

"There is abolutely nothing about a city with no walls, Russia invading Israel or anything else about which you speak. "

I'm sorry, that prophecy is an end-time prophecy from Ezekiel 38 and 39. Gog, Magog, Meshech and Tubal are usually identified by Biblical scolars as Russia. You'd have to read the whole chapter to get a sense of all the nations involved. Notice it's a restored Israel from many lands that they come up against. Only 1/6 of the forces from the North remain when God's through with them. This passage from Ezekiel, appears to match Revelation's account of Armeggeddon which comes near the end of the 7 year Great Tribulation and precedes the 1000 year reign of Christ.

Ezek 38:9 Thou shalt ascend and come like a storm, thou shalt be like a cloud to cover the land, thou, and all thy bands, and many people with thee. 10 Thus saith the Lord GOD; It shall also come to pass, that at the same time shall things come into thy mind, and thou shalt think an evil thought: 11 And thou shalt say, I will go up to the land of unwalled villages; I will go to them that are at rest, that dwell safely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates, 12 To take a spoil, and to take a prey; to turn thine hand upon the desolate places that are now inhabited, and upon the people that are gathered out of the nations, which have gotten cattle and goods, that dwell in the midst of the land.

I posted the blog because it was speculation on what the term Gloria Olivae means. Obviously, the speculation about this pope coming from the Benedictine Order or being from a Jewish heritage appears to have been proved wrong.

2,909 posted on 04/20/2005 12:21:37 PM PDT by DannyTN
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To: DannyTN

And I guess at this point, it's hard to imagine that Ratzinger is ever going to be called "Peter the Roman".


2,910 posted on 04/20/2005 12:23:53 PM PDT by DannyTN
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To: Jean2

From the bios I've read, it appears that Ratzinger has been involved in countering the misinterpretations that sprung up after Vatican II for much of his time as bishop. There were many who were pushing for great 'reform' of the RC Church (such as the Americans have) after that, but Ratzinger has been involved in leading the charge against them for decades.


2,911 posted on 04/20/2005 5:40:30 PM PDT by AFPhys ((.Praying for President Bush, our troops, their families, and all my American neighbors..))
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To: AFPhys

Some good pics here, and #315, 406, 431, 654 (curtains 700 -722) 910, ! 956 !, 1030, 1052, (bio 1212, 1244), 1242, 1258, 1323, 1430 !, 1468, 1528, 1596, 1613; 1657; 1875;
(about theology 1892, 2294), 2105 !, 2127, 2521, 2631
`


2,912 posted on 04/20/2005 8:02:22 PM PDT by AFPhys ((.Praying for President Bush, our troops, their families, and all my American neighbors..))
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To: Aquinasfan
I read the first half and didn't find anything objectionable. Why don't you pull the worst quote you can find?
---
hi Aq, ok here are a few small items that do not look very biblical when you compare the comments to the Word of God:



"It is the duty of all believers, to whichever religion they belong, to proclaim that we can never be happy pitted one against the other, the future of humanity will never be able to be secured by terrorism and by the logic of war." John Paul ll Sunday remarks from studio window, Feb 23, 2003

[he is saying 'believers' are from 'whichever religion', as if any one is fine, as long as you are a believer in whichever religion. Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth and the life, no man comes to the Father but by Me."]
----
"make every effort of avoid new divisions in the world" John Paul ll to Prime Minister Tony Blair at meeting at Vatican Feb 21, 2003

[Jesus said, "Do you suppose that I came to grant peace in earth? I tell you no, but rather division...they will be divided, father against son, mother against daughter..." (over Him). ]
----

"War must never be allowed to divide world religions" "good inter-religious relations are important at this moment of heightened tension in the entire world community." John Paul ll to visiting Catholic bishops from Indonesia, the world's largest Muslim country, Mar 29 2003

[Again, Jesus divides- He is the dividing line. He made the exclusive claim to be the only way. See above verses. ]
----

"The Holy Father explained the Holy Spirit is mysteriously present in the heart of every person. through the practice of what is good in their own religious traditions, and following the dictates of their consciences, members of other religions positively respond to God's invitation and receive salvation in Jesus Christ, even though they may not recognize Him as their Savior." Vatican Information Service reporting on what the Pope had to say on the 'Seeds of Truth in Non-Christian Religions', Sep, 1998 (ok it is not a quote but second hand reporting from the Vatican.)

[The Holy Spirit only indwells those born from above-believers in Christ. The Word says, "By this we know that we abide in Him and He in us because He has given us of His Spirit. And we have beheld and bear witness that the Father has sent the Son to be the Savior of the world. Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God." ]
----
"I also entrust myself once again to you (Mary) and with confident affection I repeat to you: Totus tuus ego sum! I am all yours! " John Paul ll on occasion of World Youth Day 2003

[The Word says, "Trust in the LORD" ]
----
(an appeal) "to all persons who profess a religion so that the spiritual and religious sense may be a source of unity and peace, which never confronts men among themselves." John Paul ll Vatican City, when receiving letters of credence of the new ambassadors to the Vatican of 12 countries, May 15, 2003

[this says, "to all persons who profess A religion..."
The Word says, "Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved."]
----


"International law has been for some time a law of war and peace. I believe it is called ever more to become exclusively a law of peace conceived as a function of justice and solidarity." (The basic principles behind this conviction, states the communique,) "are the same that inspire the Church's commitment in favor of peace" "equality in dignity for every human person and every human community, the unity of the human family..." "international law is called to be an instrument of justice ...the law therefore has the duty of harmoniously regulating international realities...so that conflicts can be prevented without recourse to arms, but rather through mechanisms and structures able to assure justice, removing the causes of potential conflicts."
John Paul ll in annual address to diplomatic corps accredited to Holy See Jan 13, 1997, quoted July 18, 2003 in theme announcement communique for World Day of Peace ("International Law, a Path for Peace") set for Jan 1, 2004.

Pope encouraged the bishops of Indonesia to "work together as brothers, committed to peace, with your own people and with those of other religious beliefs, all men and women of good will, in order to ensure understanding, cooperation and solidarity." "Authentic religion does not advocate terrorism or violence but seeks in every way the unity and peace of the whole human family." John Paul ll in address to bishops in Indonesia March 29, 2003.

"We wish to have Christians and Muslims come together to proclaim before the world that religion must never be a reason for conflict, hatred and violence." "in this historic moment, humanity needs to see gestures of peace and to hear words of hope." "It is urgent that a common invocation be raised from earth to heaven, to implore the Almighty...the great gift of peace, the necessary condition for any serious endeavor at the service of humanity's real progress." (He entrusted the success of the initiative to the Blessed Virgin Mary.) John Paul ll , Nov 18, 2001, at meeting of world's religious leaders, announcing International prayer meeting to take place in Assisi on Jan 24. (a Day of Prayer for Peace)

"I have always believed that religious leaders have a vital role to play in nurturing that hope of justice and peace without which there will be no future worthy of humanity." Oct 28, 1999 conclusion of Interreligious Assembly: "On the Eve of the Third Millennium: Collaboration among the Diverse Religions"


"If it is imperative for the international community to foster good relations between people belonging to different ethnic and religious traditions, it is all the more urgent for believers (believers=all religions)themselves to foster relations...leading to the common concern for the well being of the whole human family." "believers are obliged to build together a just and harmonious world." "Interreligious dialog will be especially important in establishing a sure basis for peace..." "contact with the followers of other religions is often a source of great joy and encouragement. It leads us to discover how God is at work i the minds and hearts of people and indeed in their rites and customs."

"May Mary,Mother of Jesus and Mother of the Church, intercede for you all ...and encourage others to follow the genuine path of dialogue." John Paul ll in address to Council for Interreligious Dialogue Nov 11, 2001


[The unity of the human family is not our what God is working to achieve at this time. Salvation of human souls from sin, death, judgment and hell is. Jesus said, "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations..." He also said the world will be divided into those who take the wide path and those who enter the narrow gate. He said, "Enter by the narrow gate (Himself) for the gate is wide, and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and many are those who enter by it."]
----

"all of the just on Earth, including those who ignore Christ and his Church are called upon to build the kingdom of God." John Paul ll at an audience Dec 8, 2000 Electronic Telegraph, story no longer online

[The Word says, " There is none righteous, not even one." and "all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." ]
----


"May all of you-partners in interreligious dialog- be encouraged and sustained by the knowledge that your endeavors are supported by the Catholic Church and appreciated by her as significant for strengthening the bonds which unite all people..." "in doing so (receiving monks of other religions) you offer a setting wherein a meeting of mind and heart can take place, a meeting characterized by a shared sense of brotherhood in the one human family that opens the way of even deeper spiritual dialog. " John Paul ll in meeting between Zen monks and Benedictine monks..he said that they can learn from each other and about their respective meditative practices and spiritual experiences. Theosophical Digest, Dec 1989

[There is no brotherhood in the one human family spiritually. A person who is in Christ by faith is spiritually alive and is now a child of God and in His family and is brothers and sisters with other believers- not with those of the human race who are in spiritual darkness. The Word says, "For He delivered us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son." ]
----


(it is) "clear that the future lies in unity and solidarity" (he called for ) "strengthening of the bond...between Christians and other great religions which flourish here." "May the resources of the church...set unity and love as their supreme goal." John Paul ll to Christians in Amman Jordan at a mass. This was part of his week long pilgrimage to the Holy Land to visit Christians, Muslims and Jews for meetings on peace and interfaith dialogue. July 29, 2003

[Actually the future lies in Jesus Christ. It's all about Him and not about us (humanity, the earth, the world). The Word says, "Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the first born of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To Him who loves us and released us from our sins by His blood, and He has made us to be a kingdom and priests to His God and Father, to Him be the glory and the dominion forever and ever. Amen. Behold, He is coming with the clouds and every eye will see Him....'I am the Alpha and the Omega' says the Lord God, 'who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.'" and, "KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS"]
--

"I come to you as a pilgrim of peace. My presence among you is a sign that the Catholic Church wants to enter a dialogue with the religions of the world." "religion must not be a pretext for conflict" "the peoples of all faiths must shun the path of isolation and division." John Paul ll in New Dehli India at a mass in which he drew parallels between Djwali, the Hindu festival of lights. The mass was punctuated by English and Hindi hymns, traditional dances from across Asia and prayers (to who?) offered in several languages. the stadium service was adapted for Hindu culture, with priests ringing bells and showering petals in traditional temple rituals. He later met with Hindu, buddhist, Sikh, Muslim, Jain, Parsee, Jewish and Baha'i leaders. Nov 7, 1999

[Again, Jesus said families and even the world will divide over Him. Who is for Him and who is against Him. Conflict must happen concerning Him. see verse at top.]

" world...will, in fact, be transformed into a world in which the noblest aspirations of the human heart will triumph, a world in which true peace will prevail." John Paul ll quoted by sister Loretto Marie Colwell at Service of World Religions for Peace,at which representatives from 10 faith traditions took part, took placed at Christ the King Catholic Church in Topeka. Jan 27, 2002. The service was inspired by a similar gathering that took place Thursday in Assisi, Italy, in which Pope John Paul ll was joined by more than 200 religious leaders from around the world to pray for peace.

[The Lord Jesus Christ will triumph, and all we who are His will triumph in Him. The Word says, " But thanks be to God who always leads us in His triumph in Christ" and "I will sing unto the LORD for He has triumphed gloriously" ]

It is not about world peace and global unity- it is about- are you saved from your sins through the blood of Christ? It is about- choose this day whom you will serve (either the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you are living)...or the LORD the only true God and Jesus Christ whom He has sent.

It was for freedom (from legalism, works, self righteousness, religions of men) that Christ set us free, therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject to a yoke of slavery. Gal.5:1
2,913 posted on 04/21/2005 12:31:43 AM PDT by Gal.5:1 (keep standing firm)
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To: Gal.5:1
"It is the duty of all believers, to whichever religion they belong, to proclaim that we can never be happy pitted one against the other, the future of humanity will never be able to be secured by terrorism and by the logic of war." John Paul ll Sunday remarks from studio window, Feb 23, 2003

[he is saying 'believers' are from 'whichever religion', as if any one is fine, as long as you are a believer in whichever religion.

That's not what he said. The thrust was that "the future of humanity will never be able to be secured by terrorism and by the logic of war." And that (offensive) war will not secure the happiness of believers of any religion.

2,914 posted on 04/21/2005 4:42:08 AM PDT by Aquinasfan (Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
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To: Aquinasfan

Aquinasfan, you are a lot smarter than me. I have been reading you for a while. I am a nobody. lol But come, (smile) do you not see that he is clearly saying that aside from what you say, which is correct, that he is also saying that it is the duty of believers to proclaim that? And he qualifies believers as those 'to whichever religion they belong', as in, believers are not those believing in Christianity alone, but to WHICHEVER religion they belong. That sure says something about who he considered believers. As someone who represented Christianity to the world, that is really bizarre. btw, if BenedictXVl believes in the traditional theology, (salvation only within the RC) and JPll obviously encouraged universalism of sorts, it will sure be interesting to see how the two views are approached and reconciled in the days to come.


2,915 posted on 04/21/2005 5:06:40 PM PDT by Gal.5:1 (keep standing firm)
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To: Gal.5:1
That sure says something about who he considered believers.

Anyone who follows the truth to the best of his ability is a believer, at least implicitly and to a degree, since Jesus is Truth itself.

2,916 posted on 04/22/2005 4:38:04 AM PDT by Aquinasfan (Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
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To: Aquinasfan

Yes, amid the world's philosophies, knowledge, religions, gods, paths, good works, high moral standard/law keeping, mysticism, asceticism, self-effort, denial and outright rebellion,

Jesus is the Truth.


2,917 posted on 04/22/2005 1:33:59 PM PDT by Gal.5:1 (keep standing firm)
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To: Aquinasfan

I wonder if you or anyone on this thread (still) knows anything about Pope Benedict's views on Eschatology. I read that he is well-studied in this field.


2,918 posted on 04/22/2005 5:21:34 PM PDT by Freedom'sWorthIt
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To: potlatch
I saw that nobody had replied and couldn't resist showing my 'smarts'!!

Sorry, didn't know where you were coming from (there's no age listing on FR, thank God!).

I thought you might have been one of the new breed of conservative kids I've been seeing more often on FR (welcome though they may be).

They're fervent conservatives, but seem to be lacking some of the fundamentals (I blame the NEA and the RATs), or perhaps the breadth and depth of the education I was afforded as an Army Brat growing up overseas.

Love those classic movies. Some of them, at least for me, stick in your head. I think I've watched the 1939 "The Hunchback of Notre Dame" so much, I've probably got every scene etched into my permanent memory (that's scary). I did grow up in Paris, so I have an excuse.

Saw your home page. You're not following me around because of my Yorkshire Terrier posts are you? LOL (had 'em as a little kid, good and bad)

2,919 posted on 04/22/2005 7:53:50 PM PDT by benjaminjjones
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To: benjaminjjones

I'm not 'following you around' LOL. I just replied to your post. My brother always had a 'thing' for Quasimodo so it stuck in my mind.

I've been here since Sept. '01. You can check each FReepers signup date by putting your cursor over their name on a reply.

You'll have to ping me if you post about Yorkies, I've never seen your posts on them.


2,920 posted on 04/22/2005 8:06:21 PM PDT by potlatch (Does a clean house indicate that there is a broken computer in it?)
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