Posted on 04/16/2005 9:03:04 AM PDT by NYer
We are pleased to report that the sale of what was purported to be a Host consecrated by Pope John Paul II and put up for sale on eBay, the on-line auctioneer, has been withdrawn, with the Host handed over to the Diocese of Sioux City, Iowa, where the seller is located [see previous story].
The issue garnered national media attention when, within minutes of a link to it on this website Wednesday night,, a Cupertino, California, man offered $2,000 for the Host to keep it out of the hands of witches, satanists, or souvenir hunters.
Although eBay claimed it received "a few" protests, the California man told us that he received 500 e-mails in just the several hours his address was displayed on Spirit Daily, before he asked us to remove his name, preferring anonymity.
Earlier Friday, Monsignor Roger J. Augustine, administrator of the Diocese of Sioux City, met with the seller and was advised that the sale would not be consummated. According to Msgr. Augustine, the seller deeply regretted the effort to sell the Eucharist and extended a personal apology to him, the diocese and any others who had been offended by the eBay listing. Because the transaction never materialized, there was no money exchanged or received.
"The Eucharist detailed in the eBay auction was given to Msgr. Augustine and has been properly disposed of according to the dictates of Catholic Church law," states a diocesan press release. "'As I said earlier this week, the Eucharist represents the true presence of Jesus Christ to Catholics,' said Msgr. Augustine. 'I am most grateful that the seller agreed that it was in everyone's best interest to bring this issue to a positive conclusion.'"
Continues the press release: "The issue of the attempted sale of the Eucharist has attracted both national and international attention with e-mails and fax messages coming into the diocesan office from countless communities. Although this specific issue has been resolved, the diocese still has differences with eBay and its policy governing the listing of items that are offensive to people of faith. E-Bay officials contend they see nothing offensive with the sale of such items on their website. Many Catholic organizations and individuals have taken issue with that policy and apparently are making their opinions known to eBay officials."
Meanwhile, the man who purchased the Host, a member of the Knights of Columbus, told us that he is more than pleased with the outcome. "I'm overwhelmed with the silent majority and how they spoke up and took action in this case," he told us, referring to the many who voiced outrage [see secular report].
There were two bids before he placed his $2,000 offer, one for $120 and one for $150.
"I am not a Catholic and do not believe I'm going to hell for selling this collectible," said the owner in his original advertisement. "It's a memento from that great afternoon with Pope John Paul II. Yes, this is the actual Eucharist I saved during the Mass that I participated in on October 18th, 1998. I ate one wafer then I went back and got another one to save and he gave me another one, but I did get a very dirty look! I was studying in Florence that semester and a bunch of us went down to Rome that week to partake. I'm not Catholic, but I found it all very interesting. Along with the Eucharist, I have the program from that day and a little bulletin. It's all in Italian. I also have four stamps from the Vatican that year and a bottle opener that I bought when I was in Rome way back in 1992. From what I understand, if you're holding something in your hand during a certain moment when Pope John Paul II spoke during his Mass, it becomes blessed. I was holding this bottle opener during Mass with him in 1992. It has his picture on one side and a picture of the Trevi Fountain on the other."
The seller went on to explain that everything from 1998 (Eucharist, bulletin, program, and stamps) were encased in plastic in his "scratch book" and all were in "awesome condition." Photos authenticating his presence there that day were also to be included (although we cannot verify any of his claims).
I couldn't have said it better myself, thank you.
Interesting, and how exactly did the priest know you were not Catholic? Do you have some sort of marking on your forehead saying so?
I attended a Catholic College, and knew the nuns by name and the priests. They knew I wasn't Catholic from day one and warned me against taking communion. BUT, they'd take my tuition, no problem. In all my time at their school, they couldn't explain to me WHY they had these prohibitions. I often wondered if the nuns themselves knew WHY.
eBay has a policy against selling human organs or tissues (last time I checked). A lamp shade made out of flayed skin is human tissue. A cracker, by any physical test (and most metaphysical tests), is not. You can claim that it's really the body of Christ (white meat or dark?), but as long as eBay lives here in the physical world, it can only measure the physical accidents of the host.
'All Christian churches believe that it is the Body of Christ'
Not true, some believe it only 'represents' the body of Christ. There is a difference. Do you believe as Catholics do in transubstantiation? If not you do the priest a disservice by taking communion.
'It seems so very haughty.'
Understanding what you are doing during communion is important else you eat and drink damnation upon yourself. Responsible churches ensure those partaking of sacraments believe the same way as those administering the sacrament.
In my church, LCMS, we have an advisory in our bulletin about this subject. Talk to the pastor BEFORE approaching the rail, as it is his responsibility as well.
Not in mine, if you discuss it with the pastor beforehand, as you should.
' in a Protestant church, as what they understand is merely a symbol'
Not all Protestants believe this.
' NO Christian denomination OTHER than the Catholic Church believe that Holy Commnion IS the BODY and Blood of Christ....not a one.'
LCMS: The Body and Blood of Christ are in, with and under the bread and wine. We don't believe as the Catholics do that the bread/wine are changed into the actual body and blood. But the Presence is there.
Re: "When you become a Catholic, then maybe you can have a say about how we distribute our holy Sacraments. Until then, keep your mouth shut."
Is that what Jesus would say?!
I am certain that Jesus would give communion to someone even if they were not of that flock - as long as a person has received Jesus as their Lord and Savior!
How do I know?
Jesus Himself answered the disciples who were complaining to Him that someone other than their group was healing people of demonic influence the following way:
Mark 9:38-40
Now John answered Him, saying, "Teacher, we saw someone who does not follow us casting out demons in Your name, and we forbade him because he does not follow us."
But Jesus said, "Do not forbid him, for no one who works a miracle in My name can soon afterward speak evil of Me.
"For he who is not against us is on our side.
And -
Luke 9:49-50
Now John answered and said, "Master, we saw someone casting out demons in Your name, and we forbade him because he does not follow with us."
But Jesus said to him, "Do not forbid him, for he who is not against us is on our side."
Basically saying - we are ALL one!
We may not agree on doctrine, but Jesus also said we must do as He did and talk as he does. Sayin "shutup" to another fellow creature of God is Not a charitable Christlike response.
If a Catholic dies after eating a 'host' and an autopsy is performed, will they find bread or flesh in the person's stomach?
My HTML skills are sadly lacking, but there are plenty of pictures here of what you are really asking.
http://www.therealpresence.org/eucharst/mir/a3.html
Ok, do you have any independently verified evidence? I am not talking about some relic from a thousand years ago. I mean evidence from a modern autopsy?
I believe that in the Bible, God tells us all we need to know about the enemy. To pick up one of those books would be like learning about Communism by listening to Communist propaganda. That can be quite dangerous.
I had a shortwave radio when I was a kid. Occasionally, I'd tune in Radio Havana, broadcasting in English to the American audience.
It was fascinating to hear their slanted perspective on the world. The trouble was, that they knew exactly what they were doing. And, after about a half hour, thoughts like, "Those people aren't so bad." and, "Why don't we just leave them alone?", started to pop into my head. I'd know then, it was time to turn it off.
The Communists are mere armatures compared to satan. And tuning him out isn't as easy as clicking a switch.
You need to bone up on the meaning of metaphors and symbolism.This is my body doesn't mean it was literally his body.
He used that phraseology when breaking the bread to symbolize.
You need to bone up on HISTORY.
It was the universal consensus of the Christian Church for the first 1500 years of its existence that in Communion the bread and wine really is changed into the body and blood of Christ.
Ignatius of Antioch, who died in AD 110 and was a disciple of both Peter and John, wrote about the Gnostic heretics of his time:
"They even abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer, because they will not admit that the Eucharist is the self-same body of our Savior Jesus Christ, which flesh suffered for our sins and which the Father in His goodness raised up again" (Epistle to the Smyrneans, 7, 8).
And Justin Martyr, writing around AD 155, describes the early Christian belief about the Lord's Supper like this: "And this food is called among us Eucharist, of which no one is allowed to partake but he who believes that the things which we teach are true, and who has been washed in the bath for the forgiveness of sins and to regeneration, and who so lives as Christ has directed. For not as common bread and common drink do we receive these; but in like manner as Jesus Christ our Savior, having been made flesh by the word of God, had both flesh and blood for our salvation, so likewise have we been taught that the food which is blessed by the prayer of his word, and from which our blood and flesh by transmutation are nourished, is the flesh and blood of that Jesus who was made flesh" (First Apology, 1:62).
There are more quotes (a LOT more) to be found that demonstrate that the Catholic teaching was universally accepted until the Reformation (and even then, Martin Luther said that Zwingli, (another Reformer), was "damned and out of the Church" for teaching that the Eucharist was only symbolic).
So let us say simply this - God taught us that it IS the Flesh of His Son and the Blood of His Son, the Church has ALWAYS taught that and you are from Kansas. Nothing against Kansas, but 2,005 years of Christian teaching versus Kansas and Kansas fails to convince.
"I've never heard it preached from the pulpit that this person in the second pew should NOT take communion."
If you attended Catholic services all of your life, you'd never here that either.
With all due respect, the Catholic church is not 2000 years old. Perhaps 1700 years, but there is nothing to suggest Catholic doctrine and tradition was present in the early church after the death of Christ.
Nonsense. See the quotes I posted above. BTW, what denomination do you claim as your own?
"I am a believer in Jesus Christ. I have a right to communion, even though when I arrive, I will know your version to be incorrect Biblically."
How do you KNOW these things? Calvin said so?
As for coming to a Catholic service, be welcome. Study and learn. If you attend daily services, the ENTIRE Holy Writ (including the parts Luther and Calvin tossed out) will be read aloud to you. Pretty bold if the Church didn't believe the BIBLE was being followed, wouldn't you say? As for the laity, well, don't you think they would notice?
There is a reason the Catholic Church is the largest as well as the oldest (and original holding that faith intact for 2,000 years) of denominations calling themselves "Christian".
Here are some tests for you:
When did your denomination accept abortion as licit and why?
When did your denomination accept birth control/contraceptives as licit and why?
When did your denomination accept divorce as licit and why?
"It is a hard religion because it emphasizes works over grace."
Wrong. Try reading a bit more. May I suggest the excellent work of Scott Hahn? He explains, from a protestant, anti-Catholic view his research and his findings. Fair warning, if you are actually literate and educated in protestant theology, you may enjoy the same result hew did, he is now Catholic.
Well, the kids to which I refer have, of course, been through their first communion.
That, along with a little parental guidance, used to be enough.
You make a valid point. I agree.
The little prayer I say to myself often, when I question something is,
Lord, don't let me be deceived."
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.