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Protestant Theologian: He Was My Pope, Too
christianity today ^ | 04.04.05 | Uwe Siemon-Netto

Posted on 04/05/2005 10:01:52 PM PDT by Coleus

For the last quarter of a century, this non-Catholic has had a pope. Now that John Paul II is gone, I am even more of an orphan than the Christians in the Roman church. For they will surely have another pope, but that one may not be mine, since I haven't converted.

I am sure I am reflecting the views of many Protestants. Who else but John Paul II gave voice to my faith and my values in 130 countries? Who else posited personal holiness and theological clarity against postmodern self-deception and egotism? Who else preached the gospel as tirelessly as this man?

What other clergyman played any comparable role in bringing down communism, a godless system? What other world leader—spiritual or secular—understood so profoundly how hollow and bankrupt the Soviet empire was, so much so that this tireless writer never bothered to pen an encyclical against Marxism-Leninism because he knew it was moribund?

Has there been a more powerful defender of the sanctity of life than this Pole, in whose pontificate nearly 40 million unborn babies wound up in trashcans and furnaces in the United States alone? What more fitting insight than John Paul II's definition of our culture as a culture of death—an insight that is now clearly sinking in, to wit the declining abortion rates in the United States?

In Europe some time ago, a debate occurred in Protestant churches: Should John Paul II be considered the world's spokesman for all of Christianity? This was an absurd question. Of course he spoke for all believers. Who else had such global appeal and credibility, even to non-Christians and non-believers?

Of course, there was the inveterate Billy Graham. There were many faithful Orthodox and Protestant bishops, pastors and evangelists.

(Excerpt) Read more at christianitytoday.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: cary; catholic; catholiclist; christianlist; johnpaulii; lutheran; pope; protestant; theologian
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To: FreedomCalls
Isn't ancestor worship Confucianism?

I don't know, is it? Not sure what either has to do with this discussion, unless I missed a post about it.
441 posted on 04/06/2005 6:11:34 PM PDT by Conservative til I die
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To: Conservative til I die; Malachi

Yes, but the NT is theology based on the OT. To say we stole it from catholics is quite ridiculous. we stole it from malachi


442 posted on 04/06/2005 6:11:58 PM PDT by D Edmund Joaquin (Mayor of Jesusland)
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To: SoothingDave
Dave, the whole time you're supposedly meditating on the Lord Jesus Christ, you are saying over and over again,
Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee; blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen.
So even in theoretically meditating on God, you are overlaying it with verbal entreaties to Mary. You are thus sharing God's glory with another.

If you can see your way around that, that's between you and God. But stop acting like you couldn't possibly understand why a Protestant might see that as Mary worship.

443 posted on 04/06/2005 6:12:14 PM PDT by Buggman (Baruch ata Adonai, Elohanu Mehlech ha Olam, asher nathan lanu et derech ha y’shua b’Mashiach Yeshua.)
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To: texasflower
You are being quite confrontational. Perhaps you would like to set a good and loving example.

Sometimes we have to use tough love on others. Protestants only keep up with their drivel about statue worship, Mary the goddess, Pope as God, etc. because Catholics act so apologetically about being Catholic instead of calling Protestant silliness on the carpet for what it is.
444 posted on 04/06/2005 6:13:49 PM PDT by Conservative til I die
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To: Conservative til I die; texasflower; Malachi; Dr. Eckleburg

That is quite unfair. we were having a good discussion, and nobody was mentioning statues. The thread is about Protestants accepting a pope. You really should know, we would rather die


445 posted on 04/06/2005 6:17:26 PM PDT by D Edmund Joaquin (Mayor of Jesusland)
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To: FreedomCalls
So you admit that there are "a lot" of Catholics who currently worship Mary and who are putting pressure to establish this in Catholic doctrine.

I've never implied otherwise. Sure there are Catholics that do a lot of incorrect things, some gravely so. But there are also many Catholics trying to pressure the Church to change its views on abortion, contraception, homosexuality, divorce/remarriage, premarital sex, and clerical celibacy.

This is going to happen when you have over 1 billion Catholics spread throughout the world in every walk of life.

Doesn't mean that "the Catholic Church" teaches or endorses these things.

It's like labeling all Evangelicals as homophobes because of the "God Hates Fags" guy.

446 posted on 04/06/2005 6:17:49 PM PDT by Conservative til I die
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To: D Edmund Joaquin

OK, we're getting into semantics here. Let me retract slightly and say that Protestants cribbed the New Testament from the Catholic Church. We wrote it, discussed it, canonized it, and interpreted it for 1,500 years before Protestantism came along.


447 posted on 04/06/2005 6:19:23 PM PDT by Conservative til I die
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To: Conservative til I die

Your hatefulness isn't helping one bit. I really think you need to stop.

Honor your pope and act like a loving Catholic. Not a hate filled one.

I don't know why you are being so hard on me. I asked people to stop bashing Catholics a couple of times on this thread.

I am asking you nicely to back off.


448 posted on 04/06/2005 6:19:29 PM PDT by texasflower ("America's vital interests and our deepest beliefs are now one." President George W. Bush 01/20/05)
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To: Conservative til I die
Do you really ever hear Fundamentalists talking about charity, good works, things like that?

All the time.

NORFOLK, Va. (ELCA) -- The Association of Lutheran Social Ministry Organizations (ALSMO) has set the stage to take its place alongside Catholic Charities U.S.A. as the largest charity in the country. The ALSMO annual meeting here April 26 unanimously approved a "strategic alliance" of more than 250 Lutheran social ministry organizations across the United States and Caribbean with the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (ELCA) and Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod (LCMS).

In 1995 about 89,000 volunteers helped 83,000 employees serve 1,763,000 people in non-residential services and 106,000 in residential services, including 20,000 elderly in independent living and 43,000 elderly in nursing facilities. The combined income of the Lutheran social ministries was $2.4 billion and expenses were $2.3 billion.

For comparison, Catholic Charities USA reported total income of $1.93 billion and expenses of $1.86 billion in 1994.


449 posted on 04/06/2005 6:24:08 PM PDT by FreedomCalls (It's the "Statue of Liberty," not the "Statue of Security.")
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To: Buggman
Luke 1 26 In the sixth month, the angel Gabriel was sent from God to a town of Galilee called Nazareth, 27 to a virgin betrothed to a man named Joseph, of the house of David, and the virgin's name was Mary. 28 And coming to her, he said, "Hail, favored one! The Lord is with you."
41 When Elizabeth heard Mary's greeting, the infant leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth, filled with the holy Spirit, 42 cried out in a loud voice and said, "Most blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb."

Holy Mary

I would think most Christians would agree Mary was holy, even if not an ever-virgin or sinless.

Mother of God

Mary was the mother of Jesus, no? And Jesus was God, yes?

pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death

Nothing more than asking her to pray for us. Pretty innocuous stuff.

450 posted on 04/06/2005 6:24:42 PM PDT by Conservative til I die
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To: Coleus

Awesome post.


451 posted on 04/06/2005 6:25:59 PM PDT by diamond6 (Everyone who is for abortion has already been born. Ronald Reagan)
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To: Buggman

"But stop acting like you couldn't possibly understand why a Protestant might see that as Mary worship."

I would suggest innocent ignorance.

But tell us which part of the Hail Mary prayer you see as worshipping Mary?


452 posted on 04/06/2005 6:26:18 PM PDT by rbmillerjr
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To: D Edmund Joaquin
That is quite unfair. we were having a good discussion,

I must have missed this discussion. All I've seen is this thread quickly degenerate into the usual anti-Catholic strawman arguments. There's really not much different about this thread than hundreds of other Protestant/Catholic pie-throwing contests on FR.
453 posted on 04/06/2005 6:26:25 PM PDT by Conservative til I die
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To: Conservative til I die; Malachi; texasflower; Dr. Eckleburg

I see. So according to you, Matthew, Mark, Luke and John were written by catholics, as well as the letters of Paul, Peter, etc.? Would it surprise you to learn that all of those people were Jewish Christians, and the scholarly research of modern times can trace the synoptic gospels as well as Paul and the others to the first century A.D. when the Pontiffs of Rome were still the Secular leaders of Edom?


454 posted on 04/06/2005 6:26:40 PM PDT by D Edmund Joaquin (Mayor of Jesusland)
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To: Conservative til I die

And that's just one protestant denomination. There are 26,999 others (using your figures).


455 posted on 04/06/2005 6:26:56 PM PDT by FreedomCalls (It's the "Statue of Liberty," not the "Statue of Security.")
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To: Conservative til I die
So you're implying that Greer is Christ? Very interesting.

*Note - The following is not sarcasm: Are you really that stupid?
456 posted on 04/06/2005 6:28:12 PM PDT by Bear_Slayer (If you're gonna be a Knight act like a Knight.)
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To: FreedomCalls

Lutherans are not Fundamentalists. Interestingly, they are one of the nearest sects to Catholicism, theologically speaking.


457 posted on 04/06/2005 6:28:21 PM PDT by Conservative til I die
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To: Conservative til I die

you see what you want to see


458 posted on 04/06/2005 6:28:42 PM PDT by D Edmund Joaquin (Mayor of Jesusland)
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To: Bear_Slayer

Hey bud, I'm not the one trying to analogize Judge Greer's mother with St. Mary. A sillier argument I cannot fathom.


459 posted on 04/06/2005 6:31:15 PM PDT by Conservative til I die
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To: Malachi

Did you get that Malachi? Leaders of Edom


460 posted on 04/06/2005 6:31:33 PM PDT by D Edmund Joaquin (Mayor of Jesusland)
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