[rbmillerjr]

"But stop acting like you couldn't possibly understand why a Protestant might see that as Mary worship."

I would suggest innocent ignorance.

But tell us which part of the Hail Mary prayer you see as worshipping Mary?

[Buggman]

Fair enough. First, as I've been going back and forth with SD on, I find the Rosary "ratios," if you will, to favor Mary over God by more than 4-to-1.

Not only is the ratio completely inappropriate, but it's coupling with real prayer to God. In one breath, you say, "Our Father, who art in Heaven . . ." and rightly call it prayer, but in the next you say ten times, "Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee; blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen," and try to claim that it is not also a type of prayer.

Third, there is this segment of the closing prayer that I mentioned several posts ago:

HAIL, HOLY QUEEN, Mother of Mercy, our life, our sweetness and our hope! To thee do we cry, poor banished children of Eve; to thee do we send up our sighs, mourning and weeping in this valley of tears. Turn then, most gracious advocate, thine eyes of mercy toward us, and after this our exile, show unto us the blessed fruit of thy womb, Jesus. O clement, O loving, O sweet Virgin Mary!

Frankly, it's on the basis of this conclusion that I have to reject the thesis that Catholics merely ask Mary to pray for them as they would another believer on the earth. If I were to ask you to pray for me, I might say, "Mr. Miller, would you mind praying for me? I'm having trouble with . . ." I would certainly never say, "O Mr. Miller, my life, my sweetness, my most gentle advocate! Shine thy eyes of mercy upon me, etc." And if I did, I'll wager that you would never willingly receive it!

Fourth, this prayer gives several titles that rightly belong to God and His Christ alone over to Mary, thus sharing His glory (cf. Isa. 42:8).

- Christ is the life (Jn. 14:6)
- Christ is our hope (Ps. 71:5, Col. 1:27, 1 Tim. 1:1)
- The Lord and His Law are our sweetness (Ps. 19:9-10)
- To God we should cry (Jonah 3:8, Ps. 84:2, Lk. 18:7)
- Christ is our Advocate (1 Jn. 2:1), our only Mediator (1 Tim. 2:5)
- It is God, through Jesus Christ, who shows mercy (Ps. 13:5, 52:8, 108:4; Rom. 9:16; Tit. 3:5), to whom mercy belongs (Dan. 9:9), whose mercy endures forever (1 Chr. 16:34), from whom we obtain mercy (1 Tim. 1:13-14), etc.

I could go further, but it really isn't my intention to merely nitpick. But you can plainly see why I have to regard the Rosary, the most oft-spoken prayer in all of Roman Catholicism, as completely inconsistant with Biblical Christianity. So long as it remains the centerpiece of the Catholic prayer life, I must in good concience regard the devotion to Mary in Roman Catholicism as meeting the criteria for worship, and her titles as usurping God's own.

The problem, I'm afraid, isn't that I am ignorant of Catholicism, but that I've spent too many hours studying it from its own writings.