Protestant Theologian: He Was My Pope, Too

christianity today ^ | 04.04.05 | Uwe Siemon-Netto

[Coleus]

For the last quarter of a century, this non-Catholic has had a pope. Now that John Paul II is gone, I am even more of an orphan than the Christians in the Roman church. For they will surely have another pope, but that one may not be mine, since I haven't converted.

I am sure I am reflecting the views of many Protestants. Who else but John Paul II gave voice to my faith and my values in 130 countries? Who else posited personal holiness and theological clarity against postmodern self-deception and egotism? Who else preached the gospel as tirelessly as this man?

What other clergyman played any comparable role in bringing down communism, a godless system? What other world leader—spiritual or secular—understood so profoundly how hollow and bankrupt the Soviet empire was, so much so that this tireless writer never bothered to pen an encyclical against Marxism-Leninism because he knew it was moribund?

Has there been a more powerful defender of the sanctity of life than this Pole, in whose pontificate nearly 40 million unborn babies wound up in trashcans and furnaces in the United States alone? What more fitting insight than John Paul II's definition of our culture as a culture of death—an insight that is now clearly sinking in, to wit the declining abortion rates in the United States?

In Europe some time ago, a debate occurred in Protestant churches: Should John Paul II be considered the world's spokesman for all of Christianity? This was an absurd question. Of course he spoke for all believers. Who else had such global appeal and credibility, even to non-Christians and non-believers?

Of course, there was the inveterate Billy Graham. There were many faithful Orthodox and Protestant bishops, pastors and evangelists.

[D Edmund Joaquin]

I'm not taking the wife's or the fathers, or even the pastor as the final word on the subject. Per the bible's instructions, I go to learned elders or even learned youngers, to ascertain the depths of their knowledge. That I can take to the scriptures which will or will not, verify that what they say is true. The scripture is the final authority.

For instance, let me say to you, I have read Genesis, and I have come to the conclusion that the Word (the torah) is the tree of life. How would I prove that this is true?

[workerbee]

But if your wife or your father or that minister gave me the same answer, all I'm left with is that yes, in fact, a person's individual belief about any particular verse or meaning is the final authority. You keep telling me you study/pray/interpret to decide what things mean w/o addressing what happens when others do the same thing and come to a different conclusion. Believe me, I'm not being sarcastic, I really just don't understand why you don't see the circle of your argument.

Per the bible's instructions, I go to learned elders

Hmm.... You mean, like Catholics go to the Church? That's about as elder as you can get! ;-)

Must go -- kids' bath time. God bless.

[Aussie Dasher]

Christ it is!

[Capriole]

But so long as you continue to obfuscate and deny history, so long as you continue to try to white-wash the truth and spin everything in the favor of Rome instead of admitting that the Magisterium was dead wrong at times (and may well still be on certain issues, which would open the way for honest theological discussion), why shouldn't we continue to champion the truth of history and remind you of the blood of the saints that was spilled in the name of the papacy?

Um, I think you missed something. I am not a Catholic. Never have been. I was raised as an Episcopalian and for many years have worshipped at a very conservative nondenominational Protestant church.

[Aussie Dasher]

If Judge Greer's mother was any sort of woman, she would have put in a word for Terri!

[D Edmund Joaquin]

Well let's say we can value their opnion but it is still our responsibility to ascertain the Truth. Perhaps the catholic church says that the "tree of life" is Mary. My pastor says that it is Jesus. The wife says it's Wisdom, and a little kid says it's a peach tree.

What does the bible say?

Proverbs 13:12 says, in the Hebrew, that the Torah is a tree of life. The same text in the bible says that Wisdom is the tree of life. Hmmm, perhaps the Word and Wisdom are related?.

Sure enough, I look up Wisdom and I see that Wisdom, like the Word and like Jesus, was with the Lord before creation, and were His delight.(Proverbs 8:27-30)

So maybe "wisdom" means the Word as well as, Jesus? Certainly we know that Jesus is the Word.

Is Jesus a "tree of life?" Certainly, for all who believe on Him have everlasting life. (1 Titus 1:16)

Then I remember that in the book of Revelation, there was not one, but two trees of life, one on each side of the river!

I have to contemplate this, but I am fairly confident now that neither Mary or a peach tree are the tree of life.

[andysandmikesmom]

I am not a Catholic...I do not consider myself, as belonging to any particular organized religion....I am a work in progress, so to speak....I have read about many Christian religions, have studied their various dogmas and doctrines, have watched the spirited religious debates here on FreeRepublic..and of course, have read and studied my Bible...and sadly, the more I read and study, the more confused and bewildered I become...

What I do believe at my core, is just a very simple thing, some would, I suppose say, a simpleton view...I believe God sent Jesus to us...He came to take on our sins....all we humans are sinners, awful sinners...God knows us, knows all about us, knows how awful we are...He sent us his most Perfect Son...God has my eternal future in His power, He asks me to believe in His Son, what His Son did for me and for all....If I will just turn over my all to the Lord, if I will believe in Jesus and what He did, I have the confidence, that whatever God does with me, will be right and just...it is, to me, the truth...

I see so much wrangling around with other extraneous beliefs...the issue of Mary, the issue of celibacy of the priests, what day is really the Sabbath, the issue of communion, is the church founded on Peter or Christ, and on and on...often I do wonder, with so many different views on so many different subjects within the whole big area of Christianity, I wonder if what one believes on any of these matters, is what will save me or condemn me...sometimes it does frighten me, that if I dont have the right answer or right belief on some point of dogma or doctrine, that I have missed the boat, so to speak.....will the Lord punish me because I did not believe a certain way on a certain point of doctrine?

I suppose I sound uneducated and simple on points of religion...but I am trying to learn, trying to arrive at the truth...

As for Pope John Paul 11...I believe he was a great, great man....a man who led millions in his faith, and provided himself as an example to those who may not have been a follower of his faith...he showed us, through his life, through his words, his actions, his love, his suffering, his illnesses, and finally his death, how just one mortal man, a sinner just like the rest of us, can submit himself totally to the Lord, and achieve great things, not for himself, but for all of us...

I would hope, that irrespective of ones religion, that we can all pray for Pope John Paul 11, and that we realize he is in the Lords safe keeping...

Again, I do apologize for perhaps sounding like a simpleton, its just how I feel...

[Aussie Dasher]

She's acted on my behalf before...all a matter of faith, I suppose.

[D Edmund Joaquin]

Proverbs 9:4 was written for all of us. You are doing the right thing by reading the scriptures for yourself and coming to understanding. Please dont think for a minute, despite the accusations, that we here, Catholic and Protestant alike dont love the brethren. If I did not care for their edification, I would mind Proverbs 9:6,7, but all here are not scoffers, just searchers. Thank you for your thoughtful and kind post.

D Edmund Joaquin

[Aussie Dasher]

That's a new one on me. Source?

[Aussie Dasher]

Any of those blokes actually reponsible for writing Catholic docrine?

[Conservative til I die]

The Pope isn't an American. Neither he nor the Catholic Church exist as an arm of the US Republican Party, either Oh, really...how deep you are. LOL.

No need to be sarcastic. It's a valid and true statement. Just because the United States does something does not make it automatically just and correct and also, the Catholic Church has two things as its interests: God and the Church. In many cases, the Church's interests are not common with America's. Doesn't make the Church bad or the US good.

[Conservative til I die]

Judge Greer loves his mother. Would you feel comfortable if she put in a good word for Michael's case?

So you're implying that Greer is Christ? Very interesting.

[Conservative til I die]

I get the distinction that the Catholic posters are making on this thread regarding Mary. However, what will be your position if Mary is infallibly declared "Co-Redemptrix"?

Won't happen.

There was plenty of pressures on John Paul II to make this declaration.There's a lot of pressure from a lot of people to do all kinds of things. Doesn't mean it will happen.

[Conservative til I die]

Mary is dead. I don't ask dead people to pray for me.

So you don't believe in the immortal soul?

[Conservative til I die]

Isn't that a Jehovah's Witness belief, that there is no soul?

[Conservative til I die]

Before you start with the typical Catholic BS

Typical Proddie BS. Why don't you lot get your own faith that doesn't depend on being against our faith? Yes, I know that it's hard since you cribbed our Bible and cribbed most of our basic doctrines, but try.

[Tribune7]

Catholics consider Mary to be the Mother of God.

[texasflower]

You need to back off.

[stands2reason]

Such a liberal thing to be pi$$ed about anything that happened more than three hundred years ago.

I'm sorry the thread turned into such an anti-Catholic free-for-all.

I'm not antiCatholic nor antiProtestant. I love the both of you.
But I wish more Christians as a whole didn't engage in knee-jerk bitterness towards one another. I see too many Christians with bad attitudes, even in my own family.

They don't realize the stress they put on their very souls.