Posted on 04/05/2005 10:01:52 PM PDT by Coleus
For the last quarter of a century, this non-Catholic has had a pope. Now that John Paul II is gone, I am even more of an orphan than the Christians in the Roman church. For they will surely have another pope, but that one may not be mine, since I haven't converted.
I am sure I am reflecting the views of many Protestants. Who else but John Paul II gave voice to my faith and my values in 130 countries? Who else posited personal holiness and theological clarity against postmodern self-deception and egotism? Who else preached the gospel as tirelessly as this man?
What other clergyman played any comparable role in bringing down communism, a godless system? What other world leader—spiritual or secular—understood so profoundly how hollow and bankrupt the Soviet empire was, so much so that this tireless writer never bothered to pen an encyclical against Marxism-Leninism because he knew it was moribund?
Has there been a more powerful defender of the sanctity of life than this Pole, in whose pontificate nearly 40 million unborn babies wound up in trashcans and furnaces in the United States alone? What more fitting insight than John Paul II's definition of our culture as a culture of death—an insight that is now clearly sinking in, to wit the declining abortion rates in the United States?
In Europe some time ago, a debate occurred in Protestant churches: Should John Paul II be considered the world's spokesman for all of Christianity? This was an absurd question. Of course he spoke for all believers. Who else had such global appeal and credibility, even to non-Christians and non-believers?
Of course, there was the inveterate Billy Graham. There were many faithful Orthodox and Protestant bishops, pastors and evangelists.
(Excerpt) Read more at christianitytoday.com ...
Hmmmmm, arrogant little snit ain't he..
JPII declared her "Queen of the Universe":
I respect the Pope for his moral courage.
But, he does not speak for me on theological matters.
This "Protestant" theologian is a weird one.
I wonder if he has ever heard of these, as he obviously is not able to support Biblical doctrine and I question whether he is Protestant or not.
Sola Scriptura: (Scripture Alone) This principle asserts the supreme sufficiency of God's written Word. No other words are adequate and no other words are divine. Popes, creeds, councils and tradition of men have no authority when they contradict the Holy Scriptures. The Bible is complete and the canon is closed. No further revelation is given. "In these last days He has spoken to us in His Son" (Hebrews 1:2). Jesus Christ has spoken all that is necessary through His apostles in the Bible. The Bible alone is sufficient: 2 Tim. 3:17; Ps. 119:1; Deut. 4:2; 12:30; 29:29; Ps. 30:5-6; Rev. 22:18-19.
Sola Gratia: (Grace Alone) Salvation is by grace alone. The definition of "grace" is unmerited favor. God is never under any obligation to grant salvation. If God's justice required that He give grace to all men, then salvation would not be a gift but an act of justice. If men could earn the grace of God, grace would by definition no longer be grace- it would be merit. "But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace" (Romans 11:6). God bestows His grace freely and sovereignly upon those whom He chooses to save. The elect are saved by grace alone: Eph. 1:3-11; 2:8-9; Rom. 9:10-16; 2 Tim. 1:9; 2 Thes. 2:13.
Sola Fide: (Faith Alone) Salvation is through faith alone. In Romans 3:26 the Apostle Paul tells us that God sent His Son as an atoning sacrifice, "to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies the man who has faith in Jesus." Rather than being declared righteous on the basis of our faith plus our deeds, we are declared righteous solely on the basis of our faith in the righteousness of Christ. (Romans 3:20-28). Christ's righteousness is imputed to the sinner not infused or imparted. Without the imputation of Christ's righteousness to us, all the infused grace we have will not save us because we as Christians do sin and fall short of Gods own perfect standard! We are justified by faith alone but not by faith that is alone. Genuine faith is accompanied by the fruit of good works (James 2:14-18). We are not declared righteous on the basis of any work, but only on the basis of our faith in Jesus: Rom. 3:20, 26, 28; 4:2-13; Gal. 2:16; 3:24-25.
Solus Christus: (Christ Alone) Salvation is because of Christ alone. Jesus Christ alone paid the full penalty for the sins of His people and presents them as righteous before the Father, restoring their fellowship with Him. His death was substitutionary in that He offered Himself as a sacrifice to satisfy Divine justice as the sins of His people were imputed to Him on the cross. We are saved solely on the basis of the merit of Christ, none of our own: Gal. 3:13; 2 Cor. 5:21; Rom. 3:25; 4:25; 8:3; Rom. 1:17; 3:21; 1 Cor. 1:30.
Soli Deo Gloria: (To God Alone be the Glory) In salvation, God alone receives credit and glory. We are saved for His glory, not for our own. His purpose in saving us and in all He does is to magnify the glory of His own great name, to have a people that would sing His praises, live in a way that reflects His character. God alone gets the credit for our salvation, because we did not contribute one thing to it. God alone, therefore, receives glory: Is. 42:8; 43:7; 48:11; Ps. 115:1; Rom. 11:36; 16:27; Eph. 3:21; Phil. 4:20; 1 Tim. 1:17; 2 Tim. 4:18.
With all respect, this is not just asking a fellow believer to pray for you:
HAIL, HOLY QUEEN, Mother of Mercy, our life, our sweetness and our hope! To thee do we cry, poor banished children of Eve; to thee do we send up our sighs, mourning and weeping in this valley of tears. Turn then, most gracious advocate, thine eyes of mercy toward us, and after this our exile, show unto us the blessed fruit of thy womb, Jesus. O clement, O loving, O sweet Virgin Mary!That's some pretty worshipful verbage you have in there, to be said at the end of the Rosary, and a lot of it usurps titles and roles that belong to Jesus Christ alone. If you wonder that Protestants might think you were worshipping Mary, you need to carefully consider your liturgical prayers.
ALSO, it is rarely noted that the Lords Prayer (Pater Noster) is prayed in every decade of the Holy Rosary)
Probably because it's buried in all of the attention given to Mary:
Make the Sign of the Cross and say the "Apostles' Creed."Are you not seeing something out of proportion here?
Say the "Our Father."
Say three "Hail Marys."
Say the "Glory be to the Father."
Announce the First Mystery; then say the "Our Father."
Say ten "Hail Marys," while meditating on the Mystery.
Say the "Glory be to the Father."
Announce the Second Mystery; then say the "Our Father."
Say ten "Hail Marys," while meditating on the Mystery.
Say the "Glory be to the Father."
Continue with the Third Mystery in the same manner, etc.
I have to believe that bodily assumptions into Heaven don't happen every day.
In fact, my mind tells me that they must be extremely rare.
Moreover, my mind (admittedly, flawed and corrupted by sin) suggests to me that Mary -- as the mother of Jesus -- surely would have had her bodily resurrection mentioned somewhere in someone's writings.
Matthew and Mark do not mention it in their accounts of the Gospel. Nor does Luke mention it at all -- either in his Gospel or in his account of the Acts of the Apostles. John doesn't mention it in his letters, in his Gospel account, or in his Apocalypse. James, who may have been the brother of Jesus, doesn't mention it. Nor does the author of the epistle to the Hebrews mention it. It is mentioned no where in any of the letters of Peter or Paul, and Jude doesn't mention it.
Of course, it may well be that Mary was, in fact, assumed bodily into Heaven.
But my own view of scripture is that it is God revealing Himself -- and His will for humanity collectively and me personally. I believe that all scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting, and training in righteouness, so that each person of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.
In other words, I believe that God reveals Himself -- and everything He considers important for me to know -- through scripture. I also believe that the Holy Spirit can be in the midsts of discussions about the meanings or interpretations of portions of scripture. And I also believe that there are many facts that are not contained in scripture. But if a fact is not in scripture, or cannot be reasonably adduced from what scripture says, then it is my belief that it is not important for me to know in order to become thoroughly equipped for every good work.
So, since there is no explicit mention of Mary's bodily assumption into Heaven, it seems to me that it is not terrbily relevant to my own sanctification whether Mary was or was not bodily assumed into Heaven. Of course, if someone could demonstrate to me how scripture compels a belief in the bodily assumption of Mary into Heaven, then I would want to carefully consider it.
I do firmly believe that Mary was a very, very special person to God. He elected her to be the woman who carried, gave birth to, and raised my Lord and Savior. For that alone, she is very, very special to me. And, even though scripture explicitly says that Elijah was bodily assumed into Heaven, I still consider Mary to be much more special to God (and therefore to me). I say Mary's name every Sunday in Worship (when I recite either the Apostles Creed or the Nicene Creed). I do not say the name of Elijah.
As has been explained before, there is a big difference between asking friends to pray for you, friends you can speak to directly since they are here on Earth, and asking Mary to pray for you.
She is dead. She is in heaven. Mary can't hear you. The only mediator between God and man is Jesus Christ, her son.
Go through Him. Revere Mary for the great part she played in God's plan of redemption and her obedience to God.
But, don't go to her and ask her to pray for you when you have a direct line to somebody who saved you on the Cross and who is much closer to the Father than Mary.
" That's not what this thread is about. I prefer to stay on topic."
And the topic for you is frequently Catholic-bashing. Do you think you are doing the Lord's work by attempting to rile division among Christians? There is a difference between debate, which I wholeheartedly respect, proselytizing, and simple-minded bashing. I don't believe there is any reward in Heaven for hatred of fellow Christians.
I'm sure you'll respond that Catholics are not really Christians, and that there is no reward for good works, but I still can't help wondering good purpose there might be behind your job as a full-time poster, so much of it dedicated to sewing division and emnity. I respect your differences of belief, and am trying to resist knee-jerk reactions to your offensive attacks, but it is clear from your post history that you have been eager to dance on the grave of John Paul and attack Catholics on FR whenever you find them. Just realize that you persuade no one with such behavior, though I am probably wrong in thinking that it may be your purpose to persuade.
She is also considered a co-mediator and even by the more radical Catholic elements a co-redeemer.
But, a queen implies she reigns.
She doesn't.
Christ is the king and she is the queen.. He still runs the show...
What?
Jesus can change his mind if Mary talks sweetly to him?
You can't possibly be serious.
The Son, being divine, has the attributes of the Father, including omniscience.
He intercedes on our behalf to the Father.
Mary getting involved won't help matters at all because Jesus will make the proper decision in accordance with his divine nature.
Why call her holy? Didn't Jesus say when he was on Earth that there was nobody good but the Father?
No Mary = No Jesus.
She was more than just a convenient uterus.
Nonsense.
We have widely different views on nearly every aspect of Christian theology. There is much more we disagree with than we actually agree on.
For instance, papal infalliblity.
You do realize that Scripture refers to all believers as saints, do you not???
This is not a reference to the unbiblical Catholic view of a saint as being a special class of Christians that are better than others.
This view is found nowhere in Scripture itself, a puzzling paradox. It is statements like this that lead some to consider Protestantism a bizarre form of book-worship. To a Catholic, it is simply bizarre to think that God reveals Himself sufficiently through His Written Word. God is mainly something you experience, not something you read.
God has given us Scripture, but He has also sent teachers along and given us access to Him through the Sacraments, which communicate His very gift of Self to us.
Protestantism is just so limited and built on contradiction. Even reading the Scripture itself, it is clear Jesus intended to establish a Church, not publish a book.
SD
Mary did not create the Lord.
John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God, and the Word was God
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