Protestant Theologian: He Was My Pope, Too

christianity today ^ | 04.04.05 | Uwe Siemon-Netto

[Coleus]

For the last quarter of a century, this non-Catholic has had a pope. Now that John Paul II is gone, I am even more of an orphan than the Christians in the Roman church. For they will surely have another pope, but that one may not be mine, since I haven't converted.

I am sure I am reflecting the views of many Protestants. Who else but John Paul II gave voice to my faith and my values in 130 countries? Who else posited personal holiness and theological clarity against postmodern self-deception and egotism? Who else preached the gospel as tirelessly as this man?

What other clergyman played any comparable role in bringing down communism, a godless system? What other world leader—spiritual or secular—understood so profoundly how hollow and bankrupt the Soviet empire was, so much so that this tireless writer never bothered to pen an encyclical against Marxism-Leninism because he knew it was moribund?

Has there been a more powerful defender of the sanctity of life than this Pole, in whose pontificate nearly 40 million unborn babies wound up in trashcans and furnaces in the United States alone? What more fitting insight than John Paul II's definition of our culture as a culture of death—an insight that is now clearly sinking in, to wit the declining abortion rates in the United States?

In Europe some time ago, a debate occurred in Protestant churches: Should John Paul II be considered the world's spokesman for all of Christianity? This was an absurd question. Of course he spoke for all believers. Who else had such global appeal and credibility, even to non-Christians and non-believers?

Of course, there was the inveterate Billy Graham. There were many faithful Orthodox and Protestant bishops, pastors and evangelists.

[texasflower]

I believe in life everlasting as well. But I don't pray to anyone that has passed on.

I don't believe a dead human has the ability to hear and answer prayers.

You are assuming God-like status to Mary and there is nothing that says she is. I have never seen anything that says we should pray to anyone but God.

We pray for each other, but only to God.

[SoothingDave]

I believe in life everlasting as well.

I don't believe a dead human has the ability to hear and answer prayers.

Why do you insist that the saints are "dead"? Doesn't that betray what you just said about believing in life?

It seems simple. Catholics don't believe death is a barrier to the Communion of Saints. You guys do.

You are assuming God-like status to Mary

Of course notWhy do y'all assume God is incapable of delegating, of letting us participate in His Work? Did God send an angel of death to bring about the Passover? Does that mean that angel had the power of life and death and a "god-like status"? Or does it just mean that God gave him a task to do, with power on loan from God?

So if we have established that God can indeed delegate His Power and Authority, it seems that allowing the saints to participate in helping those still on earth to make their way to heaven would be sensible. I can't imagine being in Heaven and not wanting to help others reach there.

Can you?

SD

[DBeers]

Protestant Theologian: He Was My Pope, Too

Absolute Truth is quite hard to deny.

[Theo]

Again, no disrespect for this past Pope, but it's important not to let false doctrine go unresponded-to:

1.  Pope Benedict XV, in 1918 - “Mary suffered with Christ and nearly died with Him when He died, thus she may rightly be said to have redeemed the human race with Christ.” 

2.  Pope Pius XI, in 1923 - “The virgin of sorrows shared the work of redemption with Jesus Christ.”

3.  Pope Leo XIII, in 1891 – “No one can approach Christ except through His mother.”

4.  The Catechism, in the Sunday Missal (Catholic Catechism) says, “My salvation depends on Mary’s mediation and union with Christ, because of her exalted position as Mediatrix of all grace.”

5.  Vatican II, said, “Mary’s intercession continues to win for us the gift of eternal salvation.”

One nice thing about "Protestant" leaders is that they're not infallable, and can admit they were wrong.

[texasflower]

I firmly believe Catholics are wrong to pray to Mary and to various "saints".

You think that's fine.

We need to leave it at that because we could argue this all day long and we will NEVER agree.

Before you start with the typical Catholic BS and try to accuse me of not having an answer, so I want to drop the subject, please read one of my previous posts on this thread.

I told someone else that this is not the right time to discuss these things.

You guys rightly love your Pope and should be grieving for him, not fighting with others.

[Okies love Dubya 2]

Thanks--don't think it's going to have much effect on some on this thread, but I had to say it :)

[I'm ALL Right!]

I agree. I admired and respected this man greatly, and I grieve his death alongside my Catholic friends. I don't think his successor will be able to fill such enormous shoes, but I pray I'm wrong.

[Okies love Dubya 2]

"You guys rightly love your Pope and should be grieving for him, not fighting with others.'

Maybe we wouldn't have to, if some would lay off until the man is at least buried (BTW, I know you ask others to lay off, so I don't mean you specifically).

[Theo]

Furthermore, on April 9, 1997 the Pope said, "Having created man male and female, the Lord also wants to place the new Eve beside the new Adam in redemption.”  The new Adam, of course, is Christ, and the new Eve is Mary.  He went on, “Mary, the new Eve, thus becomes the perfect icon for the church, we can therefore turn to the Blessed Virgin, trustfully imploring her aid in the awareness of the singular role entrusted to her by God, the role of co-operator in redemption.” That's quoted in the Aug. 25 issue of Newsweek.

Can we stop the theological argument during this grieving time, now? Let's honor the man and his good life, but leave room for disagreement with his doctrine.

[texasflower]

I just read your post #109. That was well said.

[McGavin999]

He has a good point. John Paul the Great had a way of standing up for the church that is missing in some leaders. Many Evangelicals stand in the breach as well, but they do not have the kind of church hiarchy that the Catholic Church has.

When various churches are in disobedience, they need a leader who will stand up and say "it's wrong and will not be allowed".

[SoothingDave]

Try not to describe my Faith as "typical Catholic BS." It diminishes your quite noble attempt to not argue at this time of mourning. I thank you for that, and will take you advice.

Why don't we all let this man rest in peace? We can start fighting again when the new pope is named. Those who can't stand seeing nice things said about him should remember every mother's warning to be silent if you have nothing good to say.

Let us mourn.

SD

[RnMomof7]

I agree with you on the official teaching, but that is not why this pope was not, nor would ever be MY pope.

He diminished the need for the cross.

He taught that jews had a different means of salvation, he prayed in a Hindi temple.

He traveled around the world as an ambassador, but not an ambassador for Christ. He was an ambassador for the Catholic church and for a unity without Christ.

There have been Popes I have admired but this PR man was not one of them

[johnb838]

He was this Anglo Catholic Episcopalian's Papa too. I've had to endure watching my church fall apart. To some extent I've had to watch the Roman Catholic Church falling apart too. But I've always had John Paul II watching over us, saying, No, don't worry about the apostates and non-believers. Do not be afraid. What is right is still right, and what is wrong is still wrong. Stand Fast!

He was definitely my Papa, the one who represented me. Who else would? Frank Griswold? Rowan Williams?

I can't get enough of this Pope stuff now. I have to check in at EWTN daily to get my time with him. Too soon he will be gone. Let the Church be the Rock!

[todd1]

Unless one recognizes the churches authority then a Catholic will be hard pressed to change anyones views of the church. A wise man once said... There are not 100 people in this world that hate the catholic church for what it is but there are thousands who hate it for what they believe it is.

There is a revival brewing in the Catholic church today. Here is a great site that is playing a major role in the churches revival.

http://www.saintjoe.com/p/home.pl

[texasflower]

That was the wrong way to phrase that. I apologize.

[texasflower]

Actually I liked the Pope very much and have nothing but nice thoughts about him.

[johnb838]

No way. SImply no way he said that and if he did, you're twisting his words. It is just not part of the catechism. If he's doing it he's outside the state of grace and ineligible for absolution.

[thePilgrim]

***Perhaps the author doesn't even know why he is a protestant. I wonder if the Augsburg confessions meant anything at all to him. Does the words Sola Fide or Sola Scriptura not mean anything at all? Do all the millions of martyrs that died to bring freedom from Rome not mean anything at all?***

No & no!

The problem is that the vast majority of so called Protestants have no clue what a Protestant is and what they believe. The are simply PINO's. In practice, they are much closer to the false administration of the Church in Rome. So, I have no doubt that they identify with Catholics. And, I have no doubt that they would think that the Pope is their Holy Father.

I was discussing this Monday with my Brother-in-law, who is not studied in Christian Doctrine, and he was shocked to know that Catholics really don't know what will happen to them after they die. He was shocked to hear from my own Catholic friends that they don't know where this Pope is right now. His question to me was: "Well, if there is no real assurance, then why would anyone want to be Catholic."

There are still some of us who haven't fogotten the old cries:

Sola Scriptura
Sola Gratia
Sola Fide
Solo Christo
Soli Deo Gloria

In the service of the Lord,
Christian.

[Old anti feminist]

Jesus never had a "church", He was the church. He is the "Rock".He never wore elaborate robes and waved incence around. He is the only "Father". "On this Rock, I will build my church. Peter knew it was the rock of the Gospel.It didn't mean great buildings.
From a born again Christian.