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Gibraltar clash over £2bn treasure
The Guardian ^ | Monday March 28, 2005 | Ben Sills

Posted on 03/31/2005 1:27:13 AM PST by nickcarraway

The Strait of Gibraltar has been the scene of numerous skirmishes between the British and Spanish navies, and now the two nations are sparring again - this time over the wreck of an English warship packed to the gunwales with treasure.

HMS Sussex has lain undisturbed on the seabed for more than 300 years, but since researchers discovered the ship was carrying billions of pounds of English gold and silver, it has become the focus of a bitter dispute as the Spanish authorities try to frustrate the attempts of a private company to locate it and start salvage work on behalf of Britain.

International law gives UK authorities jurisdiction over the wrecks of British ships wherever they might lie, and this month the UK government gave permission to an American exploration company, Odyssey Marine Exploration, to salvage the Sussex.

But the regional government of Andalucía claims that Odyssey also needs permission from Spain to carry out exploration in Spanish waters and has sent out coastal patrols to disrupt the salvage operation.

The Sussex sank with 12 other ships when a storm blew up on their first night out of Gibraltar. The ship was swamped as its commander, Admiral Sir Francis Wheeler, tried to avoid being swept on to the rocks. The admiral's body was washed up on a Spanish beach two days later.

Documents uncovered in 1995 revealed that the ship was carrying a payment for the Duke of Savoy, a key ally in Britain's war against the French. It is estimated that the treasure it carried would be worth more than £2bn today.

Odyssey has struck a deal with the British under which it can keep a share of the treasure in return for conducting the salvage operation. It will get 80% of the first £45m recovered, half of everything up to £500m and 40% of everything above that. Shares in the company have nearly doubled in price over the past month.

Odyssey's explorers have combed 400 square miles of the Mediterranean seabed using sonar equipment and deep-water robots. They discovered 418 possible targets, including Roman and Phoenician ships more than 2,000 years old. But only one of the wrecks had cannons. Odyssey is confident it has the right wreck, but other archaeologists have expressed doubts.

The Guardia Civil has sent out patrols to disrupt the operation.


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; Extended News; Foreign Affairs; United Kingdom
KEYWORDS: britain; gibraltar; spain; wrecks

1 posted on 03/31/2005 1:27:13 AM PST by nickcarraway
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To: nickcarraway

"Socialists" always want their payoff. Letters of marque and reprisal, GB, issue `em, we'll tell the cantamañanas corps to vete al carajo.


2 posted on 03/31/2005 1:31:41 AM PST by LibertarianInExile (The South will rise again? Hell, we ever get states' rights firmly back in place, the CSA has risen!)
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To: nickcarraway

Do you think it's too much to expect for the reporter to tell us the year the boat sank?


3 posted on 03/31/2005 1:33:37 AM PST by Neanderthal (QN)
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To: nickcarraway

I would love to say that it's a mistake to mess with our few remaining colonies - I could cite the Falklands as an example, or the fact that to this day the only battle honour carried by the Royal Marines is simply 'Gibraltar'; but then I remember that Blair is P.M., and sucking up to Europeans is the order of the day.


4 posted on 03/31/2005 2:05:55 AM PST by tjwmason (For he himself has said, and it's greatly to his credit, he remains an Englishman.)
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To: tjwmason
So the Spanish are frustrating and disrupting the efforts of the private company to salvage the wreck. Interesting euphemisms. How can a private company work if armed Spanish ships are taking action against them? The article carefully doesn't give the reader any details. GB will either have to pay off the Spanish or provide military support.
5 posted on 03/31/2005 2:16:42 AM PST by Truth29
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To: nickcarraway
the ship was carrying billions of pounds of English gold and silver

No wonder it sunk! Today's modern aircraft carrier couldn't carry that much weight.

6 posted on 03/31/2005 2:17:43 AM PST by Rudder
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To: Rudder

Pounds as in British currency, not as in weight. ;)


7 posted on 03/31/2005 2:35:52 AM PST by The Grammarian ("Preaching is in the shadows. The world does not believe in it." --W.E. Sangster)
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To: The Grammarian

Oh, in that case...nevermind.


8 posted on 03/31/2005 2:40:11 AM PST by Rudder
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To: nickcarraway

I remember the State of Florida and the Feds both tried to get their hands on Mel Fisher's Attacha loot after he spent years and years searching for it. The Supreme Court upheld the salvage laws though.


9 posted on 03/31/2005 4:13:43 AM PST by libertylover (Being liberal means never being concerned about the truth.)
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To: tjwmason

"but then I remember that Blair is P.M., and sucking up to Europeans is the order of the day."

apparently this is nothing new....in the 70's the FCO was apparently trying to ease the argentine government into some role in the falklands. This was stopped, either for political reasons in the UK or because of the coup in argentina, or both.

It is clear westminster really would like to cede gibraltar to spain. the fact they dont point out the painfully obvious fact that it was CEDED by treaty by spain.


10 posted on 03/31/2005 5:13:12 AM PST by WoofDog123
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To: WoofDog123

We've got over our [relatively brief and benign] imperial phase, and for the British left the few little dotted colonies are even a source of embarasment. The biggest problem is that they are fervently British (especially the Falklands and Gib.).


11 posted on 03/31/2005 5:16:03 AM PST by tjwmason (For he himself has said, and it's greatly to his credit, he remains an Englishman.)
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To: tjwmason

"We've got over our [relatively brief and benign] imperial phase,"

More like gone broke and been unable to keep the overseas empire. The first and particularly the second world war were the equivalent of europe committing suicide TWICE over 30 years.


12 posted on 03/31/2005 5:20:19 AM PST by WoofDog123
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To: WoofDog123
More like gone broke and been unable to keep the overseas empire.

That was one cause, but my point was that we don't even want an Empire now.
13 posted on 03/31/2005 5:27:55 AM PST by tjwmason (For he himself has said, and it's greatly to his credit, he remains an Englishman.)
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To: tjwmason

" That was one cause, but my point was that we don't even want an Empire now."

Change in public sentiment over the last 2 generations may be as much as anything an adaptation to reality - that the british colonial territories are gone and obviously aren't coming back. The empire brought tremendous wealth into the country for decades, and for the most part more benign government to the controlled territories than said territories enjoy now.


14 posted on 03/31/2005 5:34:11 AM PST by WoofDog123
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To: tjwmason

" That was one cause, but my point was that we don't even want an Empire now."

I think that has changed in the falklands, given the resources found offshore there. I would be extremely surprised if Westminster was remotely interested in foisting the falklands off to whatever kleptocracy is in argentina now, along with all the offshore rights. There is also a good argument that is it simply immoral (I know, what does morality have to do with politics) to abandon people that are clearly british in heritage and character to the ongoing soap opera of life in a banana republic, which is plausibly what what in the process of happening inthe early 70's before the coup in argentina. can you imagine the fact that 1 argentine peso today (maybe 15p or so) is worth over 1 TRILLION 1970 argetine pesos due to something like 5 cancel-and-reissue's of the currency?

As far as Gibraltar goes, it is clear westminster wants them gone. I guess that since the channel islands (and IOM) are (as I understand) direct holdings of the crown they are not so subject to being given away by parliament.


15 posted on 04/10/2005 11:40:10 PM PDT by WoofDog123
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To: WoofDog123
As far as Gibraltar goes, it is clear westminster wants them gone.

The few colonies (or as we now call them dependent territories) which we have left are so small and generally insignificant that the government couldn't care either way. Gibraltar is a special case, in that the Spanish want it back and will mess up bilateral relations to get it back - this is the only reason why Whitehall wants to dump it.
16 posted on 04/11/2005 12:57:53 AM PDT by tjwmason (For he himself has said, and it's greatly to his credit, he remains an Englishman.)
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