High school gays get a harsh lesson

Chicago Tribune ^ | March 13 | Dahleen Glanton

[farmer18th]

as merely religious.

Your use of the word "merely" is symptomatic. Without axiomatic cultural assumptions, based on religion, based on the finger of God on the rock, none of the rest of your argument holds. Western Europe is having trouble arguing against lowering the age of consent because they have cut themselves off from the rock of truth. I actually had an argument with a native American once who argued that none of the indigenous tribes could really be held to account for murder, since it was not a crime amongst them. Without God, you start to get into very strange arguments with soulless empiricists who believe it's okay to kill children in order to save the world from disease. You owe Christianity more than you think.

[farmer18th]

Guilty as charged,

Indeed.

[PeaceBeWithYou]

After looking at all of his/her post, I concur.

[KC_for_Freedom]

I agree, but I still post so others will see my opinion. We can't let this sleeping dog lie.

[jusduat]

I have a 'gay' daughter who is 38 years old. She wasn't
always that way. She was ok once, and after deciding that
she was 'gay'she was not ok in very nearly every aspect of
her life. She no longer thinks it necessary to work, be
respectful of friends or parents, or make any effort to be
a person worthy of respect. I still love her and will do
whatever I can to keep her from sleeping under bridges,
but how can I possibly respect the deliberate choice she
has made to throw away her life. Footnote: She believes
she is a good Christian now, since she reads the Bible alot
and picks her verses and thinks that by being 'nice to her
'gay' friends' she is showing a Christin example. What
she really does is use them and they use her, and no one is
helped. I'm sure that there must be some homo people out
there that have semi normal lives, but I have yet to meet
any. Without exception, every single one of them that I
have met has some degree of emotional impairment.

I can be kind and not hateful, but I just can't find
anything to respect about people who consider their sex
life to be THE most inportant, defining aspect of their
existance.

[Bon mots]

High School Gays Get a Harsh Lesson

If gays think that lesson is harsh, wait until they get AIDS.

[Prophet in the wilderness]

I agree too.

[Prophet in the wilderness]

The best definition of being a " Christian " is being " CHRIST LIKE "
The bible tell us that is it GOD's will for his people to be conformed and is being conformed into the likeness of Christ.
Just because someone believes that there is or was Jesus Christ does not make them a " CHRISTIAN " , the bible tells us, that the devils and demons also believe and tremble.
Jesus said in the book of John " Unless and man is born again, he cannot enter the kingdom of heaven "
So, just because someone " THINKS " they are a " CHRISTAIN " does not make it so.
You must accept Jesus Christ into your heart and life, and accept what he did on the cross , that he took your place and my place as a substitute for the punishment ( Atonement ) for our sins.
For is is by GOD's grace that we are saved, and not of ourselves.
NOTHING BUT THE BLOOD OF JESUS CHRIST can save you.

[Stellar Dendrite]

"Ca_Green" got the ZOT!! LOL!!! :)

[farmer18th]

Treating human beings like shit ...

Very pastoral there, but you simply must answer the question: is it ever right, in your book, to call sinners to repentance? When Jesus says, "if your brother sins, rebuke him.." you would, I imagine take exception, based on your special version of the gospel?

[SweetCaroline]

))(( ))(( ))((....sounds of hands clapping.

[B-Chan]

No one is saying you have to respect what anybody does. The Catechism says that we have to treat homosexuals as fellow sinners and avoid all unjust discrimination against them. That's all.

Homosexuality is like alcoholism: a lifestyle springing from a disordered relationship between a human being and something good and natural. In the case of the alcoholic, the relationship between man and alcohol is disordered; in the case of the homosexual (masturbator, pornographer, john, adulterer, remarried divorcee, fornicator, et al), the relationship between man and sexuality is disordered. Just as some people have an orientation towards abusing alcohol, so do other have an orientation towards abusing sexuality. In both cases, nothing is to be gained by denigrating the person on the basis of his or her orientation (which they cannot control); instead, we are called to love the person while hating the sin they commit when they choose to act on their orientation.

We are all sinners. We all suffer from disordered desires. Some of us have a disordered relationship with food; others, with power; others, with anger; others, with drink; and others with sexual desire. None of these things is evil in itself; the Lord made everything good. However, it is the height of hypocrisy for any of us to condemn our fellow human beings as being "children of the devil" when they give in to their disordered desires, because each of us is guilty of doing the same thing -- we all act on our evil natures. Some of us even build our lives around them. This is what the Lord meant when He challenged the rightous of His day to "cast the first stone".

I, too, have homosexual relatives. Their lives are messy, complicated, and unpleasant. But the same is true of those in my family who have made adultery, fornication, drinking, or drug abuse the focus of their lifestyles. Those who divorce and remarry, jack off, booze it up, or use birth control get the same disapproval from me that my homo relatives get. They all know where I stand on the issue. They all know what the Christian faith requires. There would be nothing gained by my screaming "Sinner repent!" at them. They know what they are doing is wrong and they choose to do it anyway -- as do we all.

I find it laughable that we American Christians, whose lives are rotten with divorce, remarriage, abortion, birth control use, and unmarried couples living together and having kids, have the nerve to call the homosexuals "sexually immoral" as if we were better than they are. Why single out the homos for wanting socety to endorse their lifestyle? We already have "adulterer's rights" (easy divorce and remarriage laws), "fornincator's rights" (cohabitation and trial marriage) and "whoremonger's rights" (legal contraceptives, pornography and prostitution) in this country. (And of course abortion.) If we're going to continue to wink at out of wedlock sex and reproduction, divorce, remariage, abortion, and birth control, can we blame the homsexuals for wanting society to wink at their perversion as well?

Homosexuality is a poisonous lifestyle. It only leads to unhappiness, loneliness, and pain. It is our duty as Christians to love such suffering people and to present them with the hope that Christ offers for those who sincerely repent. We do that by example and by sharing with them the Truth about human sexuality. I trust the Lord to take care of the rest.

[B-Chan]

Rebuke, yes. Treat like shit, no.

[Prophet in the wilderness]

I was wondering ?
Those people who say we should not " JUDGE " and not condemn , I was wondering ?
Was calling Adolf Hitler a " EVIL DICTATOR " condemning and judgmental ?
I am sure most of us have called Hitler a very evil man.
What he did to 6 million Jews and starting WWII ... EVIL ?
OF COURSE IT WAS.
GOD BLESS ISRAEL FOREVER !
Oh Yeah ,,,,, What can take away my sin ??
NOTHING BUT THE BLOOD OF JESUS
NOT BY WORKS, NOT BEING NICE, NOT BY LIVING RIGHT, FOR BY GRACE YOU ARE SAVED, and NOT OF OURSELVES,
NOT BY WORKS
NOTHING BUT THE BLOOD OF JESUS

[DBeers]

Can you try to opine without expletives?

[Peach]

Cool!

[scripter]

I'm not Catholic and cannot really respond to that part of your post, but with this I must agree:

I find homosexuality to be disgusting, unnatural, and wrong. My homosexual friends and relatives are well aware that I am Catholic and that I believe this. If the topic comes up, I always make it very plain that homosexuality is immoral, intrinsically evil, unnatural, and that I disapprove of it. However, I see no benefit in condemning them as "children of the devil" when I myself stab the Sacred Heart of Jesus with my own sins on a daily basis. They know what they are doing is wrong. They don't need me -- a fellow sinner -- to hammer them with that fact every time I see them.

We have former homosexuals on FR, and some freepers who currently struggle with same-sex attraction. Those who struggle with same-sex attraction are not necessarily "children of the devil" (i.e. unregenerate).

IMO, the Bible teaches that all believers are saints, but that certainly doesn't mean all believers are perfect. Believers can certainly struggle with any sin, including same-sex attraction. And in doing so that doesn't make them any less a believer, any less a saint, and certainly not "children of the devil," who, IMO, are the unregenerate. But I am getting off topic.

As I see it, referring to folks as "children of the devil" is similar to yelling "turn or burn." It may reach some, it won't reach others. It appears you and I would use the same method to reach folks: accept them as human beings, tell them to leave their life of sin, pray for them, and help them through their struggle.

I can tell you this, our church is looking into starting a ministry for homosexuals, and we won't be calling those who come to us for help "children of the devil."

[DBeers]

I find it laughable that we American Christians, whose lives are rotten with divorce, remarriage, abortion, birth control use, and unmarried couples living together and having kids, have the nerve to call the homosexuals "sexually immoral" as if we were better than they are. Why single out the homos for wanting socety to endorse their lifestyle? We already have "adulterer's rights" (easy divorce and remarriage laws), "fornincator's rights" (cohabitation and trial marriage) and "whoremonger's rights" (legal contraceptives, pornography and prostitution) in this country. (And of course abortion.) If we're going to continue to wink at out of wedlock sex and reproduction, divorce, remariage, abortion, and birth control, can we blame the homsexuals for wanting society to wink at their perversion as well?

I would suggest you are doing nothing but practicing morally relative reasoning here. The topic is homosexuality -a disordered condidion; homosexual activity is to be avoided and opposed -period. Stop attempting to equate homosexual activity -an abomination, to other sins...

[farmer18th]

I find it laughable that we American Christians, whose lives are rotten with divorce, remarriage, abortion, birth control use, and unmarried couples living together and having kids, have the nerve to call the homosexuals "sexually immoral" as if we were better than they are. Why single out the homos for wanting socety to endorse their lifestyle? We already have "adulterer's rights" (easy divorce and remarriage laws), "fornincator's rights" (cohabitation and trial marriage) and "whoremonger's rights" (legal contraceptives, pornography and prostitution) in this country. (And of course abortion.) If we're going to continue to wink at out of wedlock sex and reproduction, divorce, remariage, abortion, and birth control, can we blame the homsexuals for wanting society to wink at their perversion as well?

You make false assumptions here. None of those sins are "winked at" by people who take the gospel seriously. The critical difference I believe you are ignoring here is that the homosexuals in this story chose not to be ashamed of their sin, but to hold it up as a virtue and then demand the silent approval of the crowd. If a porno addict celebrated his datelessness by going to the prom with a pile of girly magazines, he would be properly shamed. But wait, suppose an entire lobby of national perverts comes to his aid? They tell him he was BORN that way, that he has a right to celebrate his "lifestyle." That becomes a perversion of God's order so great that it deserves a clear, passionate, and unequivocal response. The "White Washed Tombs" you reserved for me, you should have directed towards the real enemy. Think about it.

[farmer18th]

I can tell you this, our church is looking into starting a ministry for homosexuals, and we won't be calling those who come to us for help "children of the devil."

There is a fundamental difference between penitent homosexuals and those who demand that your kids celebrate their lifestyle at a high school prom. As Christians we must make distinctions. An degenerate mind doesn't hear very well. You need to shout. If they come back to church, you can lower your voice.