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NASA rushes plan to send humans to moon, Mars, despite doubts
Knight Ridder ^ | 2.21.05

Posted on 03/10/2005 12:18:15 PM PST by ambrose

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To: ambrose

The idea of ensuring survival of earthlife by going into space is a side benefit. The main idea is to develop an economy in space to supplement the earthside economy. It will be difficult to survive in space, not to mention thriving.


61 posted on 03/10/2005 2:23:14 PM PST by RightWhale (Please correct if cosmic balance requires.)
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To: newgeezer
By this summer, two aerospace teams will be chosen to construct competing prototypes of the CEV.

Here's my proposal:

Meanwhile, scientists worry about the impact of the huge enterprise on other endeavors, such as astronomy, physics and climate change.

Personally, I think the 'enterprise' will be very good for all those things.

Who knows, somewhere down the line it could even save the whales!

62 posted on 03/10/2005 2:25:15 PM PST by EternalVigilance (Freedom. Brought to you by the grace of God and the Red, White and Blue...)
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To: ambrose

> we'll all be dead and gone by the time anything like that happens

Not at all certain. Around Christmas there was an asteroid on the scopes that looked likely to hit in 2028; I plan on being alive then. As it turns out that asteroid is going to miss us, but that doesn't mean we won't get smacked tomorrow.

Plus there's the ever-entertaining notion of an extra-smart Al Queda type genetically modifiying AIDS into an airborne strain, or making an improved ebola, springing a souped-up smallpox on us, etc.

A crash program could have Martian colonies (admittedly crappy ones) running in less than ten years.


63 posted on 03/10/2005 2:30:47 PM PST by orionblamblam
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To: orionblamblam

but the point stands... it doesn't matter if WE benefit. it is enough that it will benefit future generations. Imagine if the Emperor who set out to build the Great Wall of China figured "why bother, I'll be dead by the time it is completed"?


64 posted on 03/10/2005 2:36:39 PM PST by ambrose (....)
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To: orionblamblam
So human extinction does not bother you, huh?

I'm actually bothered more by the prospect of Art Bell losing his nutball fan base. Which is to say, not at all.

How does domination by Islamists or Communists grab you?

Ditto. If that happens, it won't be because we didn't put a man on Mars.

How about losing out on the most lucrative markets since the invention of markets?

Ah, now you're talking. Private investors can pursue those markets to their hearts' content. Burt Rutan is the man!

No. Too much time in reality.

One can never spend too much time in Reality.

65 posted on 03/10/2005 2:38:28 PM PST by newgeezer (When encryption is outlawed, rwei qtjske ud alsx zkjwejruc.)
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To: ambrose

> it is enough that it will benefit future generations.

Sadly, too few people grasp that. The same econuts who scream about the tiny amonut of plutonium on Cassini don't seem to realize that successful planetary colonization means that every form of life we take with us an establish will be basically made immortal.

Once we start farming the Kuiper Belt, damn near nothing short of the galaxy exploding will threaten humanity.


66 posted on 03/10/2005 2:39:31 PM PST by orionblamblam
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To: EternalVigilance

Ahead, warp factor seven! To infinity and beyond!


67 posted on 03/10/2005 2:39:37 PM PST by newgeezer (When encryption is outlawed, rwei qtjske ud alsx zkjwejruc.)
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To: newgeezer

> Private investors can pursue those markets to their hearts' content.

Like they do in defense, yes?

> If that happens, it won't be because we didn't put a man on Mars.

If we put a man on Mars, and can keep thim there and prosperous... domination by other will NEVER happen. He who controls the high ground controls the battle.


68 posted on 03/10/2005 2:41:03 PM PST by orionblamblam
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To: newgeezer
To infinity and beyond!


69 posted on 03/10/2005 2:48:54 PM PST by EternalVigilance (Freedom. Brought to you by the grace of God and the Red, White and Blue...)
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To: orionblamblam
> Private investors can pursue those markets to their hearts' content.

Like they do in defense, yes?

Absolutely. Private investors have made a killing in defense. I've personally done very well since 9/11.

(Two can play your game.)

70 posted on 03/10/2005 3:00:58 PM PST by newgeezer (When encryption is outlawed, rwei qtjske ud alsx zkjwejruc.)
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To: jpsb

1. Environmentally unfriendly (as if it mattered)

2. Not efficient enough

3. Need to cool off the atmosphere first.

Next question ?


71 posted on 03/10/2005 3:58:44 PM PST by Salgak ((don't mind me, the Orbital Mind Control Lasers are making me write this. . . . FNORD!!))
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To: RightWhale; Brett66; xrp; gdc314; sionnsar; anymouse; RadioAstronomer; NonZeroSum; jimkress; ...

72 posted on 03/10/2005 4:42:49 PM PST by KevinDavis (Let the meek inherit the Earth, the rest of us will explore the stars!)
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To: ambrose
They should not call it Mars but Barsoom as the natives call it. sak
73 posted on 03/10/2005 4:47:02 PM PST by HuntsvilleTxVeteran (When you compromise with evil, evil wins. AYN RAND)
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To: Salgak

I was thining that painting the planet white, might not help since tha atmosphere is so think so before painting, one woould have to build huge storage tanks to pump the atmosphere into so that the suns rays could bounce off the white paint. I don't think it is possible to do something unfriendly to the environment on Venus. My reading suggests that Venus is pretty unfriendly right now.


74 posted on 03/10/2005 4:49:40 PM PST by jpsb
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To: Salgak
Asimov proposed a simple process for terraforming Venus but it would not be quick. He suggested injecting the atmosphere, at varying levels, with large quantities of many varieties of algae. Over time the surviving varieties would begin to turn the CO2 into O2 and free carbon, clearing the atmosphere and reducing the greenhouse effect thus lowering the temperature. At some point it would begin to rain and the rain would begin the process of washing the high sulfuric acid content out of the atmosphere. In an intermediate state, Venus would have a high O2, reducing atmosphere and caustic seas of sulfuric acid, not a nice place but the temperature would continue to drop as the atmosphere cleared. Eventually the sulfuric acid would combine with the surface rock and reach some sort of high mineral content aqueous solution and the atmosphere would reach a saturation point of oxygen and the algae would be the dominant species, until we arrived.

This might take a few thousand years and the end result might just be a tad different from his armchair predictions. Cheap and easy though.

75 posted on 03/10/2005 5:13:17 PM PST by muir_redwoods (Free Sirhan Sirhan, after all, the bastard who killed Mary Jo Kopeckne is walking around free)
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To: jpsb

When hearing about discussions on terraforming Venus, I hear of these centuries-long schemes with enourmous economic resources and tremendous amounts of energy involved. I wonder if simply moving the planet to another orbit, perhaps midway between Earth and Mars might actually be easier. All of the technical hurdles would be no greater than the other schemes I've heard.
If a space elevator is possible, then building a tower that extends 200-300 km above the surface of Venus would be no problem, then it's simply a matter of in-sutu propellant production. We could build a large nuclear reactor at the top of the tower, it would pump large amounts of CO2 from the atmosphere and perhaps cool and condense it to a liquid and then be injected into the nuclear core to provide thrust into space.
Simply time the the thrust from the nuclear thermal rocket at the right point of the planet's rotation and slowly-but-surely the orbit would expand and the planet would move to a more distant orbit. In less than 30-40 years perhaps, such a thing could be accomplished, much better than the centuries or millenium-long projects so far proposed and it would be in a more convenient orbit for access to Earth.
We could even push into a Lagarange orbit that's outside Earth's orbit but within 10 million miles of Earth.
When we get to the point technologically to start Terraforming planets, then such planetary engineering would be a simple matter for a civilization that has the technology and resources to expend on such a project.


76 posted on 03/10/2005 5:30:44 PM PST by Brett66 (W1 W1 W1 W1 W1 W1 W1 W1)
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To: Brett66

I say we ignite Jupiter then we can vacation on Titan.


77 posted on 03/10/2005 5:47:15 PM PST by jpsb
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To: jpsb

Opps, Titan belongs to Saturn OK ignite Saturn, might have to push Jupiter into Saturn first. Man the environmental wackos will have a **** fit. What fun.


78 posted on 03/10/2005 5:49:20 PM PST by jpsb
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To: ambrose

Ooooooo

A luddite science reporter! They're special!

Oh, wait, he's only opposed to REPUBLICAN science or anything that might actually rebound to the benefit of the United States.


79 posted on 03/10/2005 6:08:01 PM PST by Phsstpok ("When you don't know where you are, but you don't care, you're not lost, you're exploring.")
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To: ambrose
"The goal of sending humans to Mars needs more definition," Meyer, NASA's Mars scientist, told the National Academy committee. "What are humans going to do on Mars? We have to protect Mars. Do we want to send astronauts with all their dead skin cells and bacteria? We don't want to contaminate the planet and replace possible extant life."

The goal ? TERRAFORM IT. The life there will just have to adapt to changing conditions, like all life must in the universe.

Today's environmentalists will be the Preservationists of Mars tomorrow. Why? They hate humans and themselves.

80 posted on 03/10/2005 7:14:28 PM PST by Centurion2000 (Nations do not survive by setting examples for others. Nations survive by making examples of others)
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