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There are valid criticisms of evolution
Wichita Eagle ^ | 3/9/2005 | David berlinski

Posted on 03/09/2005 1:46:32 PM PST by metacognative

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To: Mongeaux
That Merlot that comes in the Box isn't bad at all.And here I thought you were some French fella
181 posted on 03/09/2005 5:28:28 PM PST by D Edmund Joaquin (Mayor of Jesusland)
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To: NonLinear

I can't do a complete job, but yours is an excellent question. I may have to finish up tomorrow if no one else jumps in.

Let's take a little round cell. For whatever reason when it divides, the new cell sticks on at one end rather than separating completely. The new cell has the same genetic makeup as the first cell. It divides and we have a chain of three. The benefit is that it can absorb food more efficiently. There's no real risk if the cells are separated, the cell membrane can probably repair itself. Clearly this process can continue until the physics of the situation says longer is no longer better. We have a streptococcus.

Of course other changes keep happening. As an example, let's say one of the cells develops a way of keeping all of one of its light sensitive chemicals in one spot. So now we have a chain of, say five cells but one of them is more light sensitive than the others. Some of these 5 cell chains turn towards or away from the light randomly and half get fried. The ones which turn away from the light survive and reproduce.

More tomorrow if it has not all become blindingly clear before then.


182 posted on 03/09/2005 5:29:59 PM PST by From many - one.
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To: D Edmund Joaquin

"That Merlot that comes in the Box isn't bad at all.And here I thought you were some French fella"

LOL! Nope - crusty New Hampshire native. Scots-Irish.


183 posted on 03/09/2005 5:30:22 PM PST by Mongeaux
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To: Mongeaux

kool, I kinda think of you as "Mongoose"


184 posted on 03/09/2005 5:31:13 PM PST by D Edmund Joaquin (Mayor of Jesusland)
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To: dirtboy

Did you know a new geology book states that all major mountains are the same age? Date that coincidence


185 posted on 03/09/2005 5:32:06 PM PST by metacognative (eschew obfuscation)
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To: D Edmund Joaquin

"kool, I kinda think of you as "Mongoose""

I am fine with that. You can think of me any way you wish as long as it isn't "Naked".

That'd be creepy.


186 posted on 03/09/2005 5:33:29 PM PST by Mongeaux
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To: Mongeaux

yes it would, dont mention it again


187 posted on 03/09/2005 5:34:42 PM PST by D Edmund Joaquin (Mayor of Jesusland)
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To: Mongeaux

The stuff growing on the food does not spontaneously emerge from the food.


188 posted on 03/09/2005 5:34:47 PM PST by Blood of Tyrants (G-d is not a Republican. But Satan is definitely a Democrat.)
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To: metacognative
Did you know a new geology book states that all major mountains are the same age?

That geology book would be full of crap, quite frankly, given that the geologic record is chock-full of cycles of mountain-building.

189 posted on 03/09/2005 5:34:59 PM PST by dirtboy (Drooling moron since 1998...)
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To: shubi

Tell me one case of speciation in a hundred a fifty years of devoted darwinite digging...besides a different color bacteria...


190 posted on 03/09/2005 5:35:01 PM PST by metacognative (eschew obfuscation)
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To: metacognative
Did you know a new geology book states that all major mountains are the same age?

Question - have you ever heard of the Amarillo Mountains? It is a serious question, not a joke.

191 posted on 03/09/2005 5:36:24 PM PST by dirtboy (Drooling moron since 1998...)
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To: Blood of Tyrants

"The stuff growing on the food does not spontaneously emerge from the food."

It did according to Church-sponsored philosophers before 1600. "Spontaneous Generation" - Aristotle believed it too.


192 posted on 03/09/2005 5:39:45 PM PST by Mongeaux
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To: Williams
You could maybe have made a better case for your quaint ideas before molecular biology started tracking mutational distances. Mutations are indeed the mechanism. There's no real controversy over that in science.
193 posted on 03/09/2005 5:40:08 PM PST by VadeRetro (Liberalism is a cancer on society. Creationism is a cancer on conservatism.)
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To: VadeRetro

"yes it would, dont mention it again"

I shan't. Ok so not all my jokes can be funny. well, maybe a few can...but not that one.

I blame the boxed merlot...


194 posted on 03/09/2005 5:44:47 PM PST by Mongeaux
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To: shubi
Evolution isn't random. Try to use references other than creationist crapsites so you will learn real stuff instead of made up nonsense.

Not sure what a crapsite is...but let's use your information. I'm asking you to inform me rather than insult

Rather than random activity, from your other posts I gather your point is that evolution is driven by natural selection, which isn't exactly random. Am I right?

Anyway, whatever the mechanism is that drives species changes over time, wouldn't you agree that it should be darn busy to create complex mechanisms like the eye, a wing, metamorphosis? Why haven't we seen anything other than microevolution over thousands of years?

Seems like a species that evolved into a bird would have to try all sorts of limb changes/mutations to eventually work its way down a series of changes ending up with flight, with many unhelpful failures along the way.

My understanding is that natural selection doesn't "know" the species needs to be a bird, so it seems a very non-selective, broad, "influence" like gravity or entropy. To get something complex and sophisticated from an influence like that, it seems to me so many dead-ends would be attempted that we would see lots of species changes, helpful and non-helpful, in recorded history.

195 posted on 03/09/2005 5:46:35 PM PST by SiGeek
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To: NonLinear
There are simple, non-obligate colonials today. Volvox. Slime molds. They can live separately or form colonies. They can survive disassembly. Even sponges can do that. Where are you imagining the difficulty?

Heck, you started life as a unicellular. Then you were a simple colony of related cells. Then your cells started to differentiate ...

196 posted on 03/09/2005 5:48:28 PM PST by VadeRetro (Liberalism is a cancer on society. Creationism is a cancer on conservatism.)
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To: dirtboy

The answer to your question is no. What's the catch?


197 posted on 03/09/2005 5:50:44 PM PST by metacognative (eschew obfuscation)
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To: shubi
If evolution isn't random, then what is it? An organism cannot change itself to better fit it's environment. An specimen must have some mutation that allows it a better chance to survive and pass on it's genes. And that mutation certainly isn't planned or programmed. Come on, say it with me, it's "random". An accident, a farce, an anomaly, a freak, an oddball.

But wait! DNA itself is designed to be self healing and to resist mutation. And despite the thousands of generations of careful selective breeding (which will easily represent millions of years of natural selection), a dog remains essentially a freaky looking wolf and not a new breed.

Quiz me this: If the furthest galaxies are 13 billion lightyears away and the age of the universe is 14 billion years old and since the light is in the visible range, that means that the galaxy is traveling away from the earth at a relatively slow pace.

Now, assuming that the earth and that galaxy are at opposite ends of the universe and both are equal distance from the center of the "Big Bang" (7 billion l.y. from the cehter), then the light from that distant galaxy we can observe today left that galaxy 13 billion years ago, i.e. it had to be 13 billion l.y. from where earth is now 13 billion years ago. That gives it 1 billion years to move from the BB to it's current position.

How did the galaxy manage to move 7 billion light years from the center of the "Big Bang" in only 1 billion years without violating Einstein's theory of relativity?

198 posted on 03/09/2005 5:55:02 PM PST by Blood of Tyrants (G-d is not a Republican. But Satan is definitely a Democrat.)
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To: dirtboy

The Origin of Mountains, Ollier and Pain
Don't be afraid of new ideas, old timer


199 posted on 03/09/2005 5:55:59 PM PST by metacognative (eschew obfuscation)
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To: Mongeaux

And here I thought you had rejected silly notions.


200 posted on 03/09/2005 5:56:09 PM PST by Blood of Tyrants (G-d is not a Republican. But Satan is definitely a Democrat.)
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