Posted on 03/04/2005 7:35:11 AM PST by cwiz24
Parents: 4th-Grade Girl To Become Boy Mom Says Youngster Has Male Brain
METHUEN, Mass. -- A fourth-grader who was attending a Methuen elementary school as a girl before February vacation has returned to school as a boy.
The parents of the 9-year-old child said the youngster was born with the body of a girl, but the brain of a boy.
They have asked that he be referred to and treated as a boy by teachers and other students, and school officials are accommodating the request. The parents have even changed the child's name.
The child's mother told The Eagle-Tribune that the family made the decision after consulting with medical professionals. She said the child is still biologically a girl.
The mother has requested that the family not be identified to protect the child.
School Superintendent C. Phillip Littlefield said there is nothing harmful about the child being in the school.
I haven't read the whole thread (just found it), but this is obvious, serious, big-time child abuse.
Hopkins is backing away from genital mutilation and the whole transsexual fraud, and it won't survive the decade anywhere else in the US (as a legitimate medical entity).
Unfortunately, it's found a niche in the oppositional leftist culture, so it will carry on for a while longer after it is medically stamped out here.
But that a school district and compliant local officials would permit "reassignment" of achild is beyond bizzare-it's horrific.
The parents made Jack a Jill and made Jill a Jack.
No, it is not. His parents said that he repeatedly, for years and years on end, told them he thought of himself as a boy.
That does not fit into your theory at all.
What other "male-typical" or "female-typical" behavior would you test in a sexually immature lab rats? Would lack of "Come and mount me" behavior (as used in that study) be counted as data demonstrating that the sexaullly immature lab rat's brain had been masculinized? If so, then all the sexually immature lab rats will be classified as "masculinized".
Huh? The "mount me" position is distinct from a rat's normal position.
How would you classify "male-typical behavior" in a sexually immature girl?
Maybe... I dunno... referring to herself as a male? Acting as if she believes herself to be a male?
That is fundamentally distinct from wishing she was a male, which requires the acknowledgement that she is not.
Tomboy behaviors are by definition not exclusive to males, because there are plenty of tomboys.
A child's "male-specific behavior" or "female-specific behavior", before hormones kick in, is extremely non-specific
That's just not true. The behavior of claiming to be of one gender or the other is very specific.
You are confusing this issue by referring to behaviors that are more likely to be displayed by boys, but are often found in girls. If fewer than .01% of girls liked to play basketball, then it would be shocking to find a girl who did, and you would look for a reason to explain this, if you could find one.
When it comes to rats, the normal male rats pretty much never display the "mount me" behavior, and normal female rats pretty much never try to mount other rats. That's why it's so shocking that the switch occurs in the experiment.
This 9 year old girl may find herself to be a perfectly normal young woman by age 18 when she is sexually mature.
I think this is extremely doubtful. Other people with the similar problem have not reported switching back to normal all of a sudden.
Even if that is the case, why would that encourage us not to treat her like a boy during childhood, if that is how she would have the most comfortable childhood? I mean, if she's going to grow up and then one day, poof, she decides she's a girl again, what's the harm in treating her as a boy for now?
On the other side, if he isn't going to magically transform into believing himself to be a girl at some point in the future (and we have no evidence to believe that gender identity switches can take place all by themselves), there is tremendous possibility of harm in continuing to treat him as a girl.
No, it is not. His parents said that he repeatedly, for years and years on end, told them he thought of himself as a boy. That does not fit into your theory at all.
Ummm....The kid is only 9 years old. There are not many "years and years" in there. In addition, children fantasize about all sorts of things. That does not mean that such fantasies will be carried into adulthood.
You seem to be fixated on "my theory". I can come up with multiple theories, all of them plausible, and the one I threw out is only one of them.
The scientific point for you to take away is that the conclusion that those anonymous "medical professionals" made is anything but certain.
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What other "male-typical" or "female-typical" behavior would you test in a sexually immature lab rats? Would lack of "Come and mount me" behavior (as used in that study) be counted as data demonstrating that the sexually immature lab rat's brain had been masculinized? If so, then all the sexually immature lab rats will be classified as "masculinized".
Huh? The "mount me" position is distinct from a rat's normal position.
Precisely.
The "mount me" position is distinct from a rat's normal position............ BUT ONLY IN NORMAL SEXUALLY MATURE ADULT FEMALE RATS.
That is why the the scientific paper I quoted limited their lab rat test subjects that investigated the "Brain Masculinization" effects caused by androgen receptor defects in utero to sexually mature adult rats.
A sexually immature female lab rat will NOT demonstrate the "mount me" behavior.
You had previously asked, "So why not expand the definition to include children?".
That is the answer.
Because sexually mature mammals exhibit gender-specific behavior that can be measured and quantified reliably while the behavior of sexually immature mammals is so non-specific that no such reliable measurements can be made.
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How would you classify "male-typical behavior" in a sexually immature girl?
Maybe... I dunno... referring to herself as a male? Acting as if she believes herself to be a male?
As opposed to referring to herself as a "Fairy Princess" or as having an imaginary friend?
What does a 9 year old boy or a 9 year old girl know about what it means to be a sexually mature 25 year old man or a sexually mature 25 year old woman.
If this girl is raised as a "boy" since the age of nine and, after puberty, discovers that she is sexually attracted to men just as would be expected in a normal sexually mature woman, what will her parents tell her then?
That she is a gay man trapped in a woman's body?
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A child's "male-specific behavior" or "female-specific behavior", before hormones kick in, is extremely non-specific
That's just not true. The behavior of claiming to be of one gender or the other is very specific.
As I noted before, children can claim to be all sorts of things. Secondly, children have very little notion of what it will mean to be a "man" or a "woman" 15 years into the future.
To a child, gender means having different toys (sometimes), dressing differently (sometimes), liking different things (sometimes) and haging out with a different group of friends (maybe).
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When it comes to rats, the normal male rats pretty much never display the "mount me" behavior, and normal female rats pretty much never try to mount other rats. That's why it's so shocking that the switch occurs in the experiment.
Only sexually mature female rats exhibit that behavior.
Sexually immature female rats do not.
Sexually immature female rats lack such behavior just as male rats, be they sexually mature or immature lack that behavior.
The designers of that experiment know that it requires sexually mature test subjects in order to meaningfully observe and quantify "male-specific" or "female specific" behavior.
You have yet to understand that point and have, in effect been arguing that those researchers should have been looking for "mount me" behavior in sexually immature rats since, in your opinion, sexual maturity is irrelevant to sexually-specific behavior.
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Even if that is the case, why would that encourage us not to treat her like a boy during childhood, if that is how she would have the most comfortable childhood? I mean, if she's going to grow up and then one day, poof, she decides she's a girl again, what's the harm in treating her as a boy for now?
One of the basic tenants of child rearing is, "You have to remember who the adult is". The first rule of medicine is, "First, do no harm".
If my 9 year old daughter had believed herself to be a Fairy Princess or a mermaid, I would have done her no favors by insisting that her school treat her as such. That will only subject the child to much ridicule and future psychological difficulties.
If the parents want to make a future life as problem-free as possible, they will keep the issue on "low profile" mode until after her hormones make their daughter the final sexual product she will ultimately become.
In 21st Century America, that is not too difficult.
As I noted, my daughter dresses in boy's jeans because of the "slut factor" of current teen-aged girl's fashion. Her parents can dress her that way too. The girl can adopt an "either/or" name such as "Pat", "Casey", "Taylor", "Cameran", "Jamie" or "Reese". Her parents can keep her out of ballet tutus and put her into coed activities whether it be sports or arts. At "dress up" functions, her parents can dress her in slacks and ambiguous sweaters instead of dresses without being "in your face" about it and having her wear a little tie.
In that "low profile" way, the "girl" can live in her own world until her female hormones hit without burning the social bridges that will make her a social freak in her own home town if she wakes up one day realizing that she is sexually attracted to males and that she must be either:
1. A normal, sexually mature young woman.
or
2. A gay guy trapped in woman's body.
Having had a "low profile" sexual identity childhood allows her to choose Option 1 and having people comment how that tomboy "Jamie" has grown up to be such a lovely lady.
Having had a "high profile", "in your face" sexual identity childhood as a "Robert" sticks her with Option 2.
Socially, Option 2 won't get you very far.
I've had some lesbian friends and some of them were pretty cute. Claiming that I was actually a lesbian trapped in a man's body got me absolutely nowhere. ;-)
"These people need to understand that God made us who we are and we have no right to change it."
Then, a child with a serious birth defect should just live with it? What about a cleft palate? Does that mean that it is wrong to repair the cleft palate.
What about a congenital heart defect? Is it wrong to repair the congenital heart defect? Never mind, the child will die without having the congenital heart defect repaired.
But the queers are celebrating.
"The easiest way is by doing a CAT scan of the BTSc section of the hypothalamus - it's 62% larger in hetero males than in hetero females. In cases of true transsexuality, they have (for instance) male parts, but a small (female) BTSc, or have female parts, but an enlarged (male) BTSc. That was the point of my earlier post - it's a medically verifiable condition."
CAT scans don't work for soft tissue analysis, not enough contrast. The other possibilities, MRI and Nuclear Medicine scans probably do not work because they may not be able to resolve a structure as small as the BTSC region.
The only way that such studies have been done, is post mortem with dissection of the brain
Thank God this was not an option when I was going through my tomboy phase! Life is hard enough without parents making a conscious effort to screw you up.
"You must be tolerant of little Jenny Johnny. She He can't help it if her his parents are drooling morons."
An interior decorator?
That's an easy one. They did a brain scan and it looked like this.
"Over or under androgen production during gestation causes intesex disorder which affects the genitalia, NOT the brain."
Oh, But it does! Let us examine the case of girls with congenital adrenal hyperplasia. It is true that in most cases, there is some degree of masculinization of the genitals. However, these girls are quite tomboyish in their behavior, and the are much more likely to be lesbians.
Furthermore, a study was done on the ratio between the length of the right forefinger to the right ring finger of lesbians. In heterosexual females, the length of the right forefinger is about the same as the right ring finger. However, in lesbians, the right forefinger is shorter (on the average) than the right index finger, more likely that of men. It is evidence of an exposure to higher levells of androgens in the womb.
Ever read this?
Not at Johns Hopkins. Both endocrine treatment and surgery is recommend before 11 moths and no later than age two. Sex assignment is usually done by day 5 if both parents and physician agree to the diagnosis.
I remember studying this phenomena in grad school, I think it was. I also recall it being exceedingly rare, and it certainly would not justify playing gender identity god over a 4'th grader.
NO...just the size. Like I told xm1234, if brain size determines gender/sex, then Star Jones is more male that you are.
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