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To: HighFlier
I have no problem with someone voicing questions about this subject; however I would expect this questioning to approach this from an angle that accepts some facts. We have UFO stories, in every single culture on earth, going back thousands of years. India, Asia, Europe, Americas, Middle East; this year, last year, last decade, last century, last thousand years, ect. ect. ect. This is NOT something new, like the crop circles. For those who believe the bible, we have this account from Ezekiel 1:1-15

Ezekiel 1

A Vision of God’s Glory
1:1 In the thirtieth year,1 on the fifth day of the fourth month, while I was among the exiles at the Kebar River,2 the heavens opened3 and I saw visions4 of God. 1:2 (In the fifth day of the month—it was the fifth year of King Jehoiachin’s exile— 1:3 the word of the Lord came to the priest Ezekiel5 the son of Buzi,6 at the Kebar River in the land of the Babylonians.7 The hand8 of the Lord came on him there).

1:4 As I watched, I saw a windstorm9 coming from the north—an enormous cloud surrounded by bright light.10 There was also a flashing fire,11 and in the fire something like a glowing substance. 1:5 In the fire were what looked like12 four living beings.13 In their appearance they had human form.14 1:6 Each had four faces and four wings, 1:7 their legs were straight, and the soles of their feet were like calves’ feet. They gleamed15 like polished bronze. 1:8 They had human hands16 under their wings on their four sides. Each of the four had faces and wings; 1:9 their wings touched each other. They did not turn as they moved, but went straight ahead.

1:10 Their faces had this appearance: each of the four had the face of a man, with the face of a lion on the right, the face of an ox on the left and also the face of an eagle— 1:11 this is how their faces appeared.17 Their wings were spread out above them; each had two wings touching the wings of one of the other beings on either side and two wings covering their bodies. 1:12 Each moved straight ahead—wherever the spirit would go, they would go, without turning as they went. 1:13 The appearance of the living beings was like burning coals of fire18 or like torches. The fire moved back and forth among the living beings. It was bright, and lightning was flashing out of the fire. 1:14 The living beings moved backward and forward as quickly as flashes of lightning19.

1:15 As I looked at the living beings, I saw a wheel20 touching the ground21 beside each one of the four. 1:16 The appearance of the wheels and their construction was like jasper,22 and all four wheels looked alike. Their structure was like a wheel within a wheel.23 1:17 When they moved they would go in any of the four directions they faced; they did not turn as they moved. 1:18 Their rims were high and awesome24 and the rims of all four wheels were full of eyes all around.

1:19 When the living beings moved, the wheels beside them moved; when the living beings rose up from the ground, the wheels rose up too. 1:20 Wherever the spirit would go, they would go,25 and the wheels would rise up beside them, because the spirit of the living beings was in the wheels. 1:21 When the living beings moved, the wheels moved, and when they stopped moving, the wheels stopped. When they rose up from the ground, the wheels rose up from the ground; the wheels rose up beside them, because the spirit of the living beings was in the wheels.

1:22 Over the heads of the living beings was something like a platform,26 glittering awesomely like ice27 stretched out over their heads. 1:23 Under the platform their wings were stretched out, each toward the other. Each of the beings also had two wings giving cover—each had two covering its body. 1:24 When they moved, I heard the sound of their wings—it was like the sound of rushing waters, or the voice of the Almighty,28 or the tumult29 of an army. When they stopped moving, they lowered their wings.

1:25 Then there was a voice from above the platform over their heads. When they stopped moving, they lowered their wings. 1:26 Above the platform over their heads was something like a throne made of sapphire. On the throne, high above, was a form that appeared to be a man. 1:27 I saw a glowing substance30 that looked like fire enclosed all around from his waist up. From his waist down I saw something that looked like fire, and there was a brilliant light around it. 1:28 The appearance of the brilliant light all around him was like a rainbow in the clouds after the rain.31 This was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the Lord. When I saw32 it, I threw myself down with my face to the ground, and I heard someone’s voice speaking. Ezekiel Link

So, for the Christians, is the bible God's word, or are just a few select books in the bible God's word? If Ezekiel's story is false, what else is false?

933 posted on 02/26/2005 2:59:05 PM PST by Hodar (With Rights, come Responsibilities. Don't assume one, without assuming the other.)
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To: Hodar

Thanks.

Actually, crop circles may go back to at least medievil times.

Ezekiel sure had SOME chariot!


934 posted on 02/26/2005 4:39:40 PM PST by Quix (HAVING A FORM of GODLINESS but DENYING IT'S POWER. 2 TIM 3:5)
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To: Hodar; All
SOME EXCERPTS from another book I'm giving away:

THE THREAT by David M Jacobs, PhD

All below the line is as in the text. . . Bold emphasis AND/OR COLOR emphasis added by Quix.

-------------------------------------

[p122]

In 1991, Robert Bigelow, a philanthropist and supporter of UFO research and another interested researcher proposed to Budd Hopkins and me that we conduct formal survey research to estimate the number of people in America who may be abductees. We agreed.

. . .

In the summer of 1991, Roper conducted an omnibus survey of a randomly selected group of adults across the United States. It was an in-home survey, in which an interviewer went to a person's home, asked questions, and recorded the answers on his questionnaire. The abduction questions were part of other questions about people's personal experiences and politics. There were no questions about product preferences.[Sup]2[/Sup] One question was specifically designed to identify people who felt compelled to answer positively regardless of the facts. Hopkinds invented the word "trondant" and we asked if this word had special significance or meaning for the respondent. If a large percentage of people answered the trondant question positively, we would know that the answers to the questionnaire should all be suspect.

Survey research usually covers a population of about sixteen hundred people, which is considered large enough to provide accurate results for most national polls. However, given the controversial nature of abduction research, we wanted to use a much larger population to maximize accuracy. The finall number of respondents was 5,947 people, which yielded an error range of a mere 1.4 percent. The Roper Poll thus became the largest and most accurate poll of this type ever taken. It is important to note that it was not an opinion poll but a poll asking about people's personal experiences, which made it different from nearly all other polls of this nature.

In the initial results, the number of potential abductees was very high--embarrassingly high:

[following bulleted in text]:

--18 percent had wakened paralyzed with a strange figure in the room. --15 percent had seen a terrifying figure. --14 percent had left their body. --13 percent had missing time. --11 percent had seen a ghost. --10 percent had flown through the air. --8 percent had seen unusual lights in the room. --7 percent had seen a UFO. --5 percent had dreams of UFOs. --1 percent had said the word "trondant" had special significance for them.

The small number of positive responses to the trondant question meant that the poll was not weighted toward those who had the urge to answer positively. The Roper Organization eliminated from the final statistics all questionnaires with a positive answer to the trondant question.

The results of the Roper Poll indicated that millions of Americans might be abductees. Hopkins and I knew that the abduction phenomenon was widespread, but these numbers were breathtaking. For that reason, we took the most conservative approach to the data. We isolated the five questions that had been found in previoius research to be reliable indicators of abduction activity. And we included in the final sample only those people who answered at least 4 of the five questions positively.

The final analysis indicates that 2 percent of the American people--five million Americans--have experienced events consistent with those that abductees experienced before they knew they were abductees. Even if this number is as much as 75 percent higher than actual occurrence, there would still be over one million people who might be abductees. One thing is clear: The Roper Poll confirmed the less formal and anecdotal evidence that there are a tremendous number of people who have had abduction experiences. And we can conclude, therefore, that the abduction phenomenon is widespread and touches almost all groups in society.

Relationship Between Five Indicator Experiences and Age (Total Sample) ------------------------------------------------
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . AGE
. . . . . Overall. . 18-29 . . 30-44 . . 45-59 . . 60+
------------------------------------------------
Waking up
paralyzed w
sense of
strange
figure . . . 18% . . . 22% . . 21% . . . 17% . . 10%

Missing
Time . . . . 13% . . . 14% . . 13% . . . 13% . . 10%

Feeling of
actually
flying . . . 10% . . . 11% . . 13% . . . 10% . . 08%

Balls of
light in
room . . . . 08% . . . 11% . . 09% . . . 07% . . 05%

Puzzling
scars . . . 08% . . . 14% . . 07% . . . 06% . . 05%

The second subanalysis concerns the Social/Political Actives. This group would not be expected to have experienced bizarre events; they are people who place themselves in the public eye. However, they not only scored higher on al lquestions, but they scored significantly higher.

Relationship Between Five Indicator Experiences and Social Political Activism (Total Sample)
-------------------------------------------------
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Overall Soc./Pol. Actives
-------------------------------------------------

Waking up paralyzed with sense
of strange figure . . . . . . . 18% . . . 28%

Missing time . . . . . . . . . 13% . . . 17%

Feeling of actually flying . . 08% . . . 11%

Puzzling scars . . . . . . . . 08% . . . 09%

[The following was in table form. But I don't keep the html table codes handy so I'm just typing it out:]

Frequency of Abductions

Karen M; over 1 year period; 9 abudction events; 7 investigated
Kathleen M; 1 calendar yr; . 13 events; . . . . 7 investigated
Christine K; 3.5 months; . . .8 events; . . . . 5 investigated
Allison R; 1 year; . . . . . 33 events; . . . . 14 investigated
Gloria K; 8 months; . . . . 54 events; . . . . 11 investigated
Kay S; 1 month; . . . . . . 14 events; . . . . 1 investigated

[p126]

[p231]:
. . . They told me terrible things would happen to the earth and that it would just blow up, and cities would crumble and mountains would fall and the sun would be black. And they said that it's bad because people can't stop being greedy and that they were doing something to help us, and I don't know how. I couldn't make the connection how putting something into my stomach would help us. . . .

[p236]:
The aliens sometimes require the abductees to help them with tasks. Carla Enders helped persuade a recalcitrant woman to breastfeed a hybrid baby. 13 The aliens directed Kay Summers to put a machine underneath the midsection of a woman lying on a table; when she accomplished her task, they were pleased with her performance. 14 Terry Matthews helped obtain sperm from four men lying on tables. She held her hands in a certain position on their genitals while an alien stared into the men's eyes. 15 Pam Martin also helped obtain sperm. With an alien at her side, she floated through a windown into a neighbor's home, and at the alien's direction, masturbated a sleeping man (also an abductee) who had been "switched off." 16

During some of these helping procedures, the abductee wears special clothes--often a skin-tight blue uniform. Wearing the garb and helping the aliens can lead the abductees to have intense feelings of guilt and shame. But that is clearly not the aliens' intent. Rather, it would appear, again, that they are grooming the abductees for some future role.

[p245]"
Claudia Negron was taken into a room filled with containers of gestating fetuses, and an alien told her that some of the fetuses were hers.

---------------------------

Anyway--I don't think that book is spoken for, yet. Please not the criteria for my sending it to you in the above post of the above prior excerpted post.

Again, I'm not interested in discussing whether such is true or not. I don't know. I'm only interested in discussing it AS THOUGH it were true.

935 posted on 02/26/2005 6:39:55 PM PST by Quix (HAVING A FORM of GODLINESS but DENYING IT'S POWER. 2 TIM 3:5)
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