Posted on 02/21/2005 6:46:21 AM PST by Zon
Hundreds of Michigan residents are getting a big surprise this tax season--hefty tax bills for cigarettes they bought online over the past four years.
The state sent the bills to 553 residents last week after subpoenaing 13 online tobacco shops for names of Michigan customers and their order histories, a Michigan Treasury Department spokesman Caleb Buhs said on Friday. The tax bills are based on information from just one store, and the state expects to collect more names from the others.
Collectively, the people receiving this first round of bills owe the state $1.4 million, an average of $2,500 per person, Buhs said. They have until March 14 to pay.
"At its most fundamental level, this is an issue of tax fairness," State Treasurer Jay B. Rising said in a statement. "It is only right that out-of-state vendors, who conduct business only online and at arms length, follow the letter of the law. These taxes are collected by brick-and-mortar businesses in Michigan, and Internet vendors should not be allowed to skirt their responsibility."
Michigan, which levies a $2 tax on every pack of cigarettes, collected $993 million in tobacco taxes last year, Buhs said.
eSmokes, one of the top tobacco sellers on the Web, cancelled thousands of orders to Michigan customers after hearing about the tax crackdown, an eSmokes representative said. The representative would not discuss whether the store has been subpoenaed by Michigan or any other state.
Michigan did not disclose which companies it has subpoenaed.
Other states, including California, Washington and Wisconsin, have launched efforts to collect tobacco taxes from residents who dodged them online. A 2002 report (click for .pdf) from the U.S. General Accounting Office said most states tax the sale of cigarettes, and that online sales have cost them millions of dollars in lost revenue.
Internet shops that don't tell states about tobacco purchases by people other than licensed distributors are flouting a federal law known as the Jenkins Act. Laws that exempt online retailers from collecting sales taxes do not apply to tobacco excise taxes, the GAO report said.
"Has he committed a criminal act?"
That is my question to you.
I'll even ask a bonus question of you. What makes tax laws more legitimate than any other laws?
Zon I assume you circuling back to arguments that I previously destroyed...
Yeah right -- NOT!
Please repost your response that you claim you destroyed my arguments.
Here are the pertinent posts, less the post which you claim destroyed my argument/questions.
Raycpa wrote: We either have laws we follow or we have anarchy.12
Zon wrote: How is it that people increasingly prospered as did society prior to last years new laws or new laws created decades ago? How is it that anarchy didn't ensue over the last hundred years -- save for prohibition? How is it that we don't have anarchy right now without next year's new laws or new laws yet to be created five, ten or fifteen years in the future?25
...is an admission that the tobacco tax is not bogus and is not an example of new laws.
No. You still need to rationally respond to the above questions.
Do Internet vendors actually encourage people to break the law? Or to they simply offer a service of convenience re: a legal product?
"...encourage people to break the laws implying that its legal to do so..." That what is legal to do so? Buying tobacco products via the mail, phone, and/or internet? Purchasing goods from out of state?
Last but not least, whence came this rise of tribal and internet tobacco sales? What brought it about? What keeps it fueled? Why do otherwise law abiding use this service to purchase a perfectly legal service, when physically it would be much easier to simply buy it locally? Could it be people know why politically and why economically prices of tobacco products are what they are, and so will not pay those wildly distorted prices?
I have already expressed to my Rep that I was shocked and would not support the propsed tax increase on tobacco here in CT.
What does "more legitimate" mean ?
The tobacco tax is neither new nor bogus. It was passed under legal methods and would be constitutional on either the original or under todays. I do believe the burden of proof is on you to prove the tax is not legitimate.
That's not it. Where is the post that you claim destroyed my argument/questions? Stop avoiding backing up your claim.
If they imply the purchaser won't be subject to taxes then yes, they are encouraging others. If on the other hand they warn purchasers they are still liable for their own states tax, then no they are not.
Last but not least, whence came this rise of tribal and internet tobacco sales? What brought it about? What keeps it fueled?
Self interest. Some people would rather pay less even if it means cheating. Cheating has been with us since civilization.
Oh, BS.
SHOW me where any political subdivision (state) has the authority to tax the people. (they don't)
Show me the LAW... not the statute, ordinance, act, or regulation. (It's not there)
States are not even LEGAL subdivisions (counties are)
What is the legal definition of ‘legal’, anyway?
(from law.com)
legal
adj., adv. according to law, not in violation of law or anything related to the law.
That seems to be pretty straightforward- now look at the legal definition of the opposed word, ‘illegal’-
illegal
1) adj. in violation of statute, regulation or ordinance, which may be criminal or merely not in conformity. Thus, an armed robbery is illegal, and so is an access road which is narrower than the county allows, but the violation is not criminal.
Well of course armed robbery is illegal; it’s a violation of the 8th Commandment. But if a narrow access road is illegal, how can it NOT be criminal?
Because any statute, regulation, ordinance or act that does anything OTHER than describe punishment for violations of Commandments 6 through 10 are not laws that affect the people! They are merely governmental policies, and only governmental entities must ‘conform’ to them!
(That’s how the government gets around the ‘Congress shall make no law’ part of the Constitution, deprives us of our rights under 'color' of law, and remains paralyzed in the face of the flood of 'illegals' across our borders.)
That's nice
Changing the subject to avoid the truth ? \
California Experiments With Pre-Fab Tax Returns (state to fill it out for people)
Give "The State Of California" a couple of years and they'll have you going before a tax board to dispute their pre-fab form, just like you have to do with your property taxes...
Mama, I don't think you understand the basis for our government.
Have you ever exceeded the speed limit?
That is pretty much the way Germany does taxes. For very simple returns it makes sense for some people. However it further removes the knowledge of how much taxes cost us.
This is your argument: "The tobacco tax is neither new nor bogus."
Are any laws bogus? If you answer yes, then you are claiming tax laws are more legitimate than these other laws.
Almost whenever I drive. I sometimes don't signal and I take RH turns without fully stopping and almost never fully stop at stop signs.
Well, if you're a Demi Big like Bill Clinton or Peggy Lautenschlager, the law DOESN'T apply to you.
It only applies to us serfs... ;-)
"Almost whenever I drive. I sometimes don't signal and I take RH turns without fully stopping and almost never fully stop at stop signs."
You don't think putting your fellow citizens in physical danger is worse than avoiding revenue enhancements to the state?
No. Should some laws be repealed, amended etc. Yes.
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