Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

To: Michael_Michaelangelo

This page shows the mousetrap is not irreducibly complex:

http://udel.edu/~mcdonald/mousetrap.html



5 posted on 02/18/2005 7:18:02 AM PST by mc6809e
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]


To: mc6809e
This page shows the mousetrap is not irreducibly complex:

A Mousetrap Defended

10 posted on 02/18/2005 7:39:11 AM PST by Michael_Michaelangelo (The best theory is not ipso facto a good theory. Lots of links on my homepage...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies ]

To: mc6809e

That settles it for me. The mousetrap evolved entirely by random mutation and natural selection.


12 posted on 02/18/2005 7:59:30 AM PST by Tribune7
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies ]

To: mc6809e
This page shows the mousetrap is not irreducibly complex:

Really? Oddly, I see all the elements of the mouse trap in the first diagram.

  1. Base - the floor
  2. trigger - the tensioned state of the wires
  3. Hammer - the stressed wire

Now, let's actually remove one of the components. Let's remove the tension on the wire (this actually removes two components, the trigger and the hammer.)

Guess what? You no longer have a mouse trap. Removing a component causes catastrohpic failure of the system, just like IC predicts.

All this website does is illustrate a different mouse trap design. All the elements are still there.

This is simply another example of someone not getting irreducible complexity. They think the form of the design is the complexity, not realizing it's the functional elements of the design that is the complexity.

15 posted on 02/18/2005 8:12:25 AM PST by frgoff
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies ]

To: mc6809e

From the article you posted:
"The mousetrap illustrates one of the fundamental flaws in the intelligent design argument: the fact that one person can't imagine something doesn't mean it is impossible, it may just mean that the person has a limited imagination."

Actually, that is the major flaw in "non-ID" thinking.

And I assume his "reduceable" mousetrap is humor.


27 posted on 02/18/2005 9:19:57 AM PST by RobRoy (They're trying to find themselves an audience. Their deductions need applause - Peter Gabriel)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies ]

To: mc6809e

From McDonalds own "reduceable mousetrap article:

"Of course, the reduced-complexity mousetraps shown below are intended to point out the logical flaw in the intelligent design argument; they're not intended as an analogy of how evolution works."

In other words, it is an analogy. Analogies are designed to explain a thing more simply, not prove it. All his analogy proves is that he can be creative and clever. His mousetrap has no examples whatsoever in the actual biological world.

When I was in High School back in 1970, a very clever paper was reprinted that proved black is white. It was a hoot and got an A at some university. Of course the logic was flawed, but in a very covert way. I read and reread it and learned a lot about debate from that paper.

The trick is to get the reader/listener to grant you one seemingly insignificant point (which is actually false), and then build your entire foundation for your conclusion from that one point, without exposing it. They don't know what hit them.


28 posted on 02/18/2005 9:28:46 AM PST by RobRoy (They're trying to find themselves an audience. Their deductions need applause - Peter Gabriel)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson