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To: nyg4168
Dinosaurs and humans did not co-exist.

There is some weak evidence that perhaps they did. This includes the Bibical references to a couple of creatures one of which was described as having a tail like a cedar tree. There are the references to dragons in multiple cultures. There is a reference in the Bible to King David having a "dragon pit". Whether this held animals or not, who knows? There is some peruvian pottery that shows drawings of men with dinosaurs that is "supposedly" old. There have been cave drawings found. But we haven't found fossil evidence. At least none that has been independently confirmed. And until that occurs, the evidence is weak at best.

Carbon dating does tell us how old organic material is.

Up to a point. all carbon 14 should deplete by 90,000 years. But no fossils have been found that have been fully depleted. And the levels are higher than what are thought to be due to contamination. Even if it is from contamination, that casts doubt on other radiometric techniques.

Other radiometric techniques date for longer ages than Carbon, but there are problems with all of them. The most common one was Potassium Argon dating. It was assumed that all argon boiled out of lava upon eruption and therefore lava could be dated since the argon ratio would initially be 0. But it has turned out to be a false assumption. 16 different vocanoes of recent eruptions all tested with long dates due to excess argon. What's more argon is a gas that may seep through the ground like Radon contaminating samples.

Light travels at a set speed, and millions of years must have passed for us to see starts that are millions of light years away.

This is the most difficult observation to reconcile to a literal interpretation of the Bible. But there are a couple of possibilities.

  1. There is a theory on speed of light changing (dubious but not entirely impossible),
  2. there are theories about inflation of the universe and relativistic and temporal effects that may have resulted in the universe aging at a different rate than Earth,
  3. There's a theory I have about God and time. God interacts with time differently than we do. This must be true for Him to be able to tell us the future, and yet we have free will. But If He can tell us now about the future because He's been there, then He can also go into the past from here and change things. It's possible that He created the Earth when there were no stars, go to day 4 of the Creation week and created the stars, but created them at a point in time, far enough back to have the light arrive at Day 4. This wouldn't be deceptive. It would just be a demonstration of His power, that we arrogantly took to mean He had lied, because we didn't understand the scope of His power.
  4. There is a theory that God created the light from the stars in transit when He created the stars. Again, there are some who say, that He would be lying, but if the purpose was to give light, then He wouldn't really. There's no reason He should wait millions of years just to keep a few arrogant men from assuming He lied.

72 posted on 02/17/2005 7:37:26 PM PST by DannyTN
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To: DannyTN
1. There is a theory hypothesis on speed of light changing...
2. there are theories conjectures about inflation of the universe and relativistic and temporal effects that may have resulted in the universe aging at a different rate than Earth...
3. There's a theory speculation I have about God and time...
4. There is a theory wild-assed guess that God created the light from the stars in transit...
91 posted on 02/17/2005 8:43:20 PM PST by Liberal Classic (No better friend, no worse enemy. Semper Fi.)
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To: DannyTN
"all carbon 14 should deplete by 90,000 years"

The half-life of Carbon 14 is 5,730 years. In 90,000 years it should deplete by to .0019 % of it's original amount. Why would that be the same as disappearing?
101 posted on 02/17/2005 9:10:46 PM PST by Moral Hazard (Sod off, Swampy)
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To: DannyTN
"There's a theory I have about God and time. God interacts with time differently than we do. This must be true for Him to be able to tell us the future, and yet we have free will. But If He can tell us now about the future because He's been there, then He can also go into the past from here and change things. It's possible that He created the Earth when there were no stars, go to day 4 of the Creation week and created the stars, but created them at a point in time, far enough back to have the light arrive at Day 4. This wouldn't be deceptive. It would just be a demonstration of His power, that we arrogantly took to mean He had lied, because we didn't understand the scope of His power."

This seems like a bizarre approach to bend science to equate with your religious belief. Two huge problems with this are that:

1)Free will and predeterminism are mutually exclusive. If you can know what state a system will be at any point in time it is by definition a deterministic system.

2)According to the laws of Quantum mechanics, the spin of a particle (to give one example) cannot be known before it is measured, not even by God. Therefore it is impossible for anyone, even God, to know the future.
106 posted on 02/17/2005 9:17:12 PM PST by Moral Hazard (Sod off, Swampy)
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To: DannyTN
Up to a point. all carbon 14 should deplete by 90,000 years.

Apparently you are confused about the theory of radioactive decay. Each half-life, half of the remaining will decay away still leaving half. It will never totally decay away.

142 posted on 02/18/2005 7:28:43 AM PST by WildTurkey (When will CBS Retract and Apologize?)
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To: DannyTN
There is some weak evidence that perhaps they did. This includes the Bibical references to a couple of creatures one of which was described as having a tail like a cedar tree. There are the references to dragons in multiple cultures...."

Sorry, drawings and pictures are not convincing evidence. I can write a story about the dinosaur who came to my house to eat my dog today and put the story in a pot and bury it in my backyard. When someone digs it up 20,000 years from now, should they rely on my story to believe that dinosaurs lived in 2005? How about the drawing my 13 year old cousin did of her sitting on a unicorn?

Humans throughout history have stumbled across what we now call dinosaur fossils. Without much of the knowledge base we can today rely on, they made up myths to explain what they found. You find references to dragons in both eastern and western culture. The eastern peoples who found these "dragon bones" created the myth of the benevolent river god who brought good luck as he flew through the sky. In the west, people thought the bones were those of an evil, violent guardian of hoarded treasure. That dragon had to be slain. Do you believe either of these myths?

Represenetations of these myths do nothing to support the assertion that humans and dinosaurs ever co-existed. People are storytellers, we often communicate through hyperbole, myth, and fantasy. King David's "dragon pit" (I'd like to see chapter and verse referenced for that one) is no more literal than the three bears Goldilocks finds in her house. Neither story is true, but both teach a valid lesson.

Regarding your thoughts on the speed of light. You're just making up theories to fit your pre-conceived notion that the Genesis account is literal. You have to fit your theories to the evidence, not the other way around. Otherwise, you're not doing science, you're doing religion.
160 posted on 02/18/2005 9:13:41 AM PST by nyg4168
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To: DannyTN

That sort of explains how the Sun was created on Day One!

It also explains how the animals were created after man in Genesis 2.


189 posted on 02/18/2005 12:35:41 PM PST by WildTurkey (When will CBS Retract and Apologize?)
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