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To: DaughterOfAnIwoJimaVet
Don't you find it odd that he thought it appropriate to personalize his argument by agreeing to apply his description to Mary Cheney,

You are assuming exactly what the media assumed, that "hedonism" was meant to be derogatory. It was not.

In the interview, Keyes defined homosexuality as selfish hedonism, exactly as he had done before, in the context of marriage. He is on record explaining that his use of the word "hedonism" was not meant to be a pejorative (look up the word), and was not exclusive to homosexuality.

When asked by the gay reporter if Mary Cheney fit that description of a selfish hedonist, he said, "Of course she is. By definition, of course she is."

Since then, the media has reported it as Keyes "lashing out" at the VEEP's daughter, calling her a "hedonistic sinner," and making a personal attack.

Nonsense.

Some might ask, if the media was wrong, why hasn't Keyes challenged them and laid this issue to rest? I've found numerous examples where he actually has tried. The media just, again, either refuses to report it or is incredibly inept at simple online research.

Search the transcripts of interviews Keyes has done on this subject. Here is one:

EILEEN: I want to ask you this question: this past week, we hosted a program, and you might have heard it, with Steven Bennett, who is a reformed homosexual man. He spoke recently at a church in Oak Park, and that was characterized actually as "hate speech." But you recently made some comments about the issue in regards to Mary Cheney as a "selfish hedonist"--hang on--most conservatives would agree, I think, with me that we love the sinner, we hate the sin. Were your remarks about that too harsh?

KEYES: First of all, this is, again, an area of fabrication by the media. I never raised Mary Cheney's name.

EILEEN: No, I know you don't. I am sorry.

KEYES: I never raised it, never brought her up. She was not on my mind.

EILEEN: That's right.

KEYES: They asked me about gay marriage, and I pointed out that you can't take gay sexual relations, which are essentially self-regarding pursuit of pleasure--that is, "selfish hedonism"--and make it the basis of marriage, since, in principle, marriage is focused on procreation, and procreation involves . . .

[cheering, applause]

--selflessness, responsibility, the ability to commit yourself to which is not about . . .

EILEEN: [talking over] Why'd you take the bait, Alan? Why'd you take the bait?

KEYES: . . . to commit yourself to that which is not about your own pleasure or fulfillment.

JAY: Excuse me.

KEYES: Let me finish, please.

[crowd reacts, cheers]

EILEEN: Let him finish.

JAY: Well, when I let you finish, I'll never get a word in edgewise.

EILEEN: Not true.

KEYES: You asked the question . . .

JAY: I didn't ask it.

KEYES: . . . and before I can finish answering the question, you're interrupting.

Then, the media people raised the question, "Well, Mary Cheney who is well-known and has come out and said she's lesbian--does that mean that she is a selfish hedonist?"

And my response was the only possible response of a person with any integrity. Because I had just said, right, that gay sexual relations involve selfish hedonism, if I had said, "Well, no, it doesn't apply to her," or I had acted as if I was running away from the question, then I give the impression that, if you're the Vice President's daughter, if you're a Republican, if you're somebody that I care about, or whatever, then the truth doesn't apply to you, and I am a hypocritical elitist who wants to apply truth to others, but not to my own.

[applause]

But I'll tell you the truth of it: I am not. The truth is the truth.

I will stand for it in public. I will stand for it in private. I will stand for it because that's where God wants me to stand, and I won't be backed off!

[loud cheering, applause]

And so, at the end of the day . . .

[applause continues]

All I said was . . .

[applause continues]

All I said was is that if she is engaging in such sexual relations, then, by definition, she falls in this category.

And so, it wasn't I. I singled nobody out. I targeted no one. I raised nobody's family--because I don't. It was, once again, the media. The scandal-mongering media. The media that wants profit at the expense of every shred of integrity in American public life, who have been acting according to a conflict of interest. How can they report fair information, when they make money by forcing candidates to buy paid media? When are we going to look at the truth?

http://renewamerica.us/archives/media/interviews/04_10_02wls.htm

The above link has an MP3 file of this exchange. The crowd reaction is worth it.
578 posted on 02/15/2005 1:23:55 AM PST by Gelato
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To: Gelato
And my response was the only possible response of a person with any integrity. Because I had just said, right, that gay sexual relations involve selfish hedonism, if I had said, "Well, no, it doesn't apply to her," or I had acted as if I was running away from the question, then I give the impression that, if you're the Vice President's daughter, if you're a Republican, if you're somebody that I care about, or whatever, then the truth doesn't apply to you, and I am a hypocritical elitist who wants to apply truth to others, but not to my own.

Dr. Keyes is right on. He's such a brilliant man. It's painful to watch him suffer for speaking the Truth. But hey, if Our Lord, and St. Paul, and St. Peter, and St. Francis and many others had to suffer for the sake of the Truth, why should Alan Keyes be any different?

"Blessed are you when they persecute you and utter every kind of insult against you because of Me. Your reward in heaven shall be great."

This whole situation is also a great demonstration of those who truly wish to speak the Truth of Christ should be celibate, unmarried men. So their enemies can't use their own children against them.

Benedicat te omnipotens Deus, Dr. Keyes.
616 posted on 02/15/2005 8:16:57 AM PST by Antoninus (In hoc sign, vinces †)
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To: Gelato
You are assuming exactly what the media assumed, that "hedonism" was meant to be derogatory. It was not.

Yeah, okay Gelato - whatever. LOL

663 posted on 02/15/2005 9:54:19 AM PST by DaughterOfAnIwoJimaVet (Humina, humina, humina...)
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