Teacher accused of sex with 2 students

San Francisco Chronicle ^ | 2/12/5 | Ryan Kim

[Smartaleck]

"To be honest, I tend to think of my female students more as my daughters than as potential romantic interests."

Me thinks most healthy people see it that way.

Asking oneself how would I want someone to treat my son or daughter arrives at the Golden Rule solution real fast. LOL

[Smartaleck]

"Perhaps, however, it is time for the good teachers to start doing something about the bad ones, and the predators among your ranks."

How is it that you presume that other teachers know the proclivities of the other teachers?

All the evidence seems to indicate that most pedophiles are quite clever and secretive?

[Smartaleck]

"Hey, I have news for you guys - men and women are different."

The loss of a child's innocence knows no gender.

[Drew68]

Somehow I have a hard time thinking of a 16 year old American girl these days as a " child " , if you get my drift .

I agree. At the same time I am having a hard time considering this 25 year-old teacher (who had been teaching at the school since he was 22) as someone who has fully reached adulthood.

Yes, I know in the eyes of the law he was an adult and she was a child. Yet, he probably was not that far removed from adolescence himself and considered himself part of the crowd. He was probably one of those "buddy" teachers who regaled his students with his HS and college exploits (which weren't too long ago).

Fact of the matter, I'd be looking at it a little differently if he were 45 or 35 and not 25. Still, his actions were criminal and that is the end of the story.

[Smartaleck]

"he probably was not that far removed from adolescence himself"

Last night Foxnews played an audio clip of one of the female teachers who had sex with a student....she was a 20 something.

Her husband was on the show and the moderator made a comment about her juvenile language and "little girl voice".
(The poor husband was humiliated to say the least.)

Anyway, this shrink attributed it to some kind of "arrested development." Something lacking in the teachers past that she was trying to re-live and compensate for. This was offered by way of an explanation why someone might do this...not an excuse for it though. Kinda makes sense.

[Thumper1960]

Must be a new NEA/AFT teacher policy.

They've been screwing the taxpayer, now it's the students.

[Drew68]

Anyway, this shrink attributed it to some kind of "arrested development." Something lacking in the teachers past that she was trying to re-live and compensate for. This was offered by way of an explanation why someone might do this...not an excuse for it though. Kinda makes sense.

I recall hearing the same defense being used for Michael Jackson's behavior. Something along the line of "well, he never had a childhood himself as he was always working so now he is trying to compensate."

Something I've noticed in regards to "arrested development" has been the gradual extension af adolescence. I'll walk throught the mall or grocery store and amazed at how many 30-something men and women (and sometimes even older) are still trying to dress like teenagers! I see guys with gray hair wearing eyebrow piercings and baggy pants and women walking with their teenaged daughters both wearing low-riders! Don't these people have any idea how idiotic they look I'd have been mortified if my dad dressed like I did when I was in highschool!P>I'm 36 and I like to dress reasonably stylish but there comes a time when one must act (and dress) like a grown-up.

[Minuteman23]

I repeat: These people (men and women) are sick and predatory.

[BJungNan]

How is it that you presume that other teachers know the proclivities of the other teachers?

First, we certainly know there are bad teachers - predators - in the ranks of teachers. Many more now than we ever imagined. I did not say, though, that other teachers know which ones are doing horrible acts.

But is that an excuse to do nothing if you know it is going on but just don't know who they are?

It is a reasonable question and the reasonable answer is that something should be done to correct the culture in the schools.

This is purely anecdotal, I witnessed the most inappropriate display of teacher behavior at a school band concert. The teacher was giving students overly affectionate hugs and group hugs on stage during the concert. And he was carrying on in the most emotional, childish manner.

In plain view of an auditorium of people, the teacher had no sense to realize it was unacceptable behavior. The teacher has been carrying on like this for six years.

The culture at the school is obviously one that tolerates it.

[OKIEDOC]

Hells Bells guess were not throwing enough money at quality education.

Better cut highway funds and give more to irresponsible school administrators.

They El Paso school district just fired 30 or more for using drugs.

No wonder our kids are under educated.

[maineman]

RIGHT ON!

[Smartaleck]

"Don't these people have any idea how idiotic they look?"

Apparently not. LOL

I wanna hear about those tattoos when though youngsters turn about 65. The cute little rose at 20 is now a bouquet!!!!

[Smartaleck]

"I witnessed the most inappropriate display of teacher behavior"

You don't need to answer, but what did you do?

Please don't take it that I'm making excuses for those who don't act, but it's not always an easy thing to do...that is, accusing others of bad behavior. To often, I believe out of fear of being sued.

It happens all the time that we find the neighbors didn't know, or admit, someone was abusing the kids, the dogs whatever.

The fact that society as a whole has grown to accept "inappropriate behavior" only complicates the matter. Nobody does anything until matters are taken to an extreme. Very sad.

[JoeV1]

Wait a minute. Did he actually have sex with them or did he just get a bj? That's not actually sex, is it? I mean the previous president said it wasn't.

[BJungNan]

You don't need to answer, but what did you do?

I'm not a teacher, if that is what you are asking.

Please don't take it that I'm making excuses for those who don't act, but it's not always an easy thing to do...

I don't agree with you on this. It is the school adminstrator's job to do this. He is well paid and should know when the behavior of a teacher is not appropriate. Any other professional in a supervisory position is expected to deal with such situations.

To often, I believe out of fear of being sued.

That is completely backwards from an adminstration perspective. It is out of fear of being sued that the administration should step in. I realize you may have been talking about private parties though.

The fact that society as a whole has grown to accept "inappropriate behavior" only complicates the matter.

In the private work sector, inappropriate contact is quite salient. The teacher's behavior that I witnessed would have received a written warning and perhaps mandatory time off without pay.

[Hodar]

This is a rarity. Some lesser counselors, young, and lacking in experience might make a mistake but most can discern real accusations....according to a friend of mine who has been doing this for 25 years.

So, do YOU want to risk being jailed for years, losing everything you own; because some accepted the word of a child as gospel? It may be a rarity, it may only happen in select circumstances; but it has happened on more than one occasion. No one would give this type of credence to the sworn statement of an adult.

[ladylib]

"Not without EVIDENCE, and corrorating ADULT witnesses. We've had people incarcerated because the police coerced children to lie (remember the whole Daycare witch-hunt), we've had a student accuse her teacher for revenge (she got a bad grade)."

Do you really think a pedophile is going to have a corroborating ADULT witness with him/her while diddling some kid?

[Hodar]

Do you really think a pedophile is going to have a corroborating ADULT witness with him/her while diddling some kid?

Thus the arcane and ancient process of "Innocent until PROVEN Guilty". No evidence, no crime. How many people need to have their lives destroyed because someone who legally can not be held responsible, said they did something? Have you never met a child? Some will lie, just to see if they can get away with it. Children are cruel, they are mean. Compassion is actually a measure of maturity; for children tend to have precious little.

Just think, any one of these stories could be YOU.

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[ladylib]

I understand what you are saying. I think a lot of the fault lies with a district attorney prosecuting a case who is going to try to make a name for himself no matter what and/or the social services department -- sometimes a kid also if he/she has a grudge against someone -- but a discerning district attorney should be able to figure out when a kid is lying or not or whether a social services department is trying to put a kid up to something.

However, no self-respecting pedophile is going to have a corroborating adult witness with him when he is diddling a kid. C'mon now -- that's unrealistic.

[Smartaleck]

"You don't need to answer, but what did you do? "
"I'm not a teacher, if that is what you are asking."

If you saw someone beating a student would you think, I'm not a teacher........not my job?

Yes, the work place is quite explicit and many companies go through great pains and expense to explain inappropriate behavior. They don't want to get sued.

In business it hits the company's bottom line. In schools it affects the tax payer.