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To: discostu

I appreciate your belated legwork on your rather shaky premise.

Your belief in the beneficence of a hard salary cap boils down to a ten year period in the NFL that provides little hard evidence of such a preposterous claim.

You salt your hypotheses with words like "...were by and large correct...", "...over and over the(y) tended to win..." and other such fuzzy foundational statements, followed by absolute concluding statements like "...the only teams that could afford ...", and "...true free agency and no cap is the era of dynasties...".

Now, I don't mind someone searching out facts to back up their preconceived ideas, but the facts should be sturdier than this if you're going to make baldly absolute statements about cause and effect.

In the miniscule slice of NFL time upon which you've hung your 'theory', 1984 to 1995, you had SIX different teams (Los Angeles Raiders (unless you're discounting the 1984 Superbowl), Wash., NY Giants, Chicago Bears, San Fran, and Dallas). Of those, San Fran and Dallas are hardly the population meccas of NY, LA and Chicago fame. If size of market were the critical dimension of success, where were the NY Jets and the LA Rams? Certainly no lack of money in those cities, was there?

So it boils down to a perception that you have that free agency was a demon to be exorcised based on the extremely tenuous proposition that because the Giants won 2 in 5 years, the Redskins won 2 in 5 years, the Bears won 1, and two smaller market teams (SF and Dallas) won 3 in 6 and 2 in a row, respectively.

Based on this flimsy logic, a great case can be made that the NE Patriots are proof that the current hard salary cap promotes the status quo. They have, after all won more Superbowls in 4 years than any team other than Dallas (3 wins in 4 years, too).

Face it. You're unable to support this hard cap lunacy with anything even remotely looking like hard data.

Just because you believe it, doesn't make it so.

BTW, the reason that the NBA is now not "officially" a hard cap (I wonder who made that "official" decision anyhow) is because it was so problematic that the league started creating exceptions to make it workable.

If it didn't work in the NBA, why impose it on the NHL? The problem in the NHL is that the owners are completely incapable of controlling their checkbooks. "Please, stop us from writing more checks. Please!"

They get no sympathy from me, especially when Tampa and Calgary show up in the Finals last year (with marginal salaries paid to their Cup-hungry players).


124 posted on 02/10/2005 3:01:42 PM PST by ColoCdn (Neco eos omnes, Deus suos agnoset)
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To: ColoCdn

There's nothing fuzzy about it. When free agency was unabated 4 teams ruled the NFL with the loan exception being the year's Chicago's 46 ruled. 4 teams split 11 Super Bowls over a 12 year period because there was no cap and the rest of the league couldn't afford to compete with them. It's nbt fuzzy at all, I'm basing my argument exactly on what Rozelle and Rooney did, it's the argument they used to seel the cap to the owners and players, sorry if you don't like it but you not liking it doesn't make it fuzzy.

It's not a miniscule slice of time, it's over 1/4 of the entire post merger history of the NFL. SF and Dallas were top 10 media cities when judging by the population local channels reach, and Dallas thanks to their America's Team monicer has always excelled in memorabelia sales usually being the #1 team in that department rarely if ever sinking below #3, that adds money which they spent on athletes which gave them the last powerhouse team of the dynasty era.

No I don't think free agency was a demon at all. The problem isn't free agency, it's how some owners HANDLE free agency. Look no further than the New York Rangers to see how some owners will just throw money at players, this alters the financial landscape of a league and makes it much more difficult to compete. The year the Dallas Stars won the Cup they had 6 players making more than Troy Aikman did on his most lucrative contract with the Cowboys, now given the relative revenues generated by each team and the over all personal fame do you really think the Stars had 6 players that had earned more money than a 3 time Super Bowl winning QB? Salaries have gotten out of hand in the NHL, too many teams simply can't afford to compete because too many other teams view their bank account as a bottomless pit, since these teams are franchises of the league and should exist to help each other earn revenue something needs to be done. McDonald's corporate wouldn't tolerate one franchise overbiding another and taking all their good employees because they understand it's bad for the chain as a whole, the NFL realized the same thing and instituted the salary cap for the betterment of the league, and the bottom line statements show they did the right thing.

There's no flimsy logic in there at all, and your need to resort to insults proves it. People who know their logic can hold can do so without insults, I haven't insulted you, do the world a kindness and return to polite discourse.

SF and Dallas were NOT small market teams. They weren't top 5 but they were top 10, and more importantly larger markets than most of the AFC teams except the Raiders and Jets in that time period. That was the focus of the AFL when it came about, small market areas, and freeform free agency beat the snot out of the AFC. Not all large market teams succeeded because not all owners and GMs spend money wisely, again look no further than the Rangers whose salary for the past 5 years has exceeded the NFL salary cap every year (with half the players, think about it).

The Pats have succeeded because the cracked the code of the salary cap. They don't over pay for players, they don't defer salary (which is the trap that killed Dallas and Denver and is still killing the Niners, defering salary is not a good idea in any sport and it's really dumb in a hard cap system), they have a smart coach with flexible game plans, and they look for smart players that can handle changing roles. But the system still works, notice they haven't won with blow outs, and the year they didn't win the SB they didn't even break 500. The salary cap was the last step in Rozelle's dream, it started with the draft system that allows the worst teams to get the best players out of college, he wanted an any given Sunday league, total parity where there's no way you could predict on Sep 1 who's going to win the SB.

Every site that discussed the NBA salary cap says it's a soft cap. Their cap didn't work for a lot of reasons, not the least of which is that the fundamentals have dropped out of the game making it stink as a whole. Also the significantly smaller team sizes make it still very easy to overpower other teams with talent, if the talented players are willing to do stuff like pass the ball and practice their free throws.

It's not "please stop us from writing more check", it's "stop that owner over there from pricing us out of the market for skilled players".

Notice Tampa had been slowly building their team over time and was focusing on a team concept not unlike the Pats, it's not impossible for an inexpensive team to succeed in the NHL, but it's damn hard. And Calgary, like all the other Canadian teams, benefited from the Rangers fire sale, and Calgary also knew they were going to lose most of their big players in the next season because they simply can't afford to keep them. And that's the problem with unbridled free agency and crazy owners, small market teams can build to greatness but they can't afford to keep it. And any company using the franchise model that allow one group of franchises to dismantle others is doomed to failure.


125 posted on 02/10/2005 3:30:26 PM PST by discostu (quis custodiet ipsos custodes)
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