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To: Joe Bonforte
I can heartily concur with what you have described as self-organization when it comes to economics. But I would hesitate to believe such organization developed apart from information, communication, and intelligence.

Take your example of the NYC food supply. Even though the individual components may be unaware of each other, the end result is still due to intelligence and design. It is sloppy, to be sure. Anyone's analysis of NYC food supply will be a self-imposed construct, fitting the current system into a pre-conceived image of "organization."

In short, I don't think this example can serve as one to show that all matter has the capacity not only to remain consistent but also to be observable, apart from any kind of intelligence or design.

We have to be careful what we mean when we say "self-organization." As far as I have been able to observe there has not been any kind of organization completely apart from intelligence and/or design. Your experience and understanding is probably different.

Thanks.

445 posted on 02/05/2005 10:18:02 PM PST by Fester Chugabrew
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To: Fester Chugabrew
As far as I have been able to observe there has not been any kind of organization completely apart from intelligence and/or design.

How about a storm system, or a tornado. Are the air molecules intelligent? As a simpler, if more trivial, example, the sand grains on a beach are organized. The grains are larger to smaller in size as one moves up the beach. Is the surf "intelligent"? Does it "know" to loose energy, and therefore deposit smaller grains, as it moves up the beach?

474 posted on 02/05/2005 10:50:07 PM PST by Stultis
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