[Kay Ludlow]

Maybe you should drop into one of their meetings sometime, Lodwick - see if any of your neighbors are there trying to get ordinances passed to control what you do at your house - LOL! This stuff really is going on everywhere because of the funding coming out of the government. The EPA is funding "smart Growth" - see http://www.epa.gov/livability/topics/funding.htm which is just another name for government planning the use of resources, rather than the invisible hand of the market. Check out what they're promoting with Green Communities at http://www.epa.gov/greenkit/index.html

We are trying to convince our elected officials to cut off the funding for all this BS, but they say they can't go up against the environmentalists lobby. That's why we need a lot of grassroots groups, that form statewide coalitions and ultimately national coalitions - so we can go to congress representing more people than the environmentalists say they represent. If we start out speaking out in our own communities opposing all this, and gain notoriety that way it gives us a leg to stand on at the state level.

That is exactly what the people who want government to control all resources did - they started with the environmentalism at the grassroots level in the 50's and 60's, and by the 80's had widespread support among the public for saving tigers and spotted owls. In the 90's they really leveraged that power into control of federal and state departments and even agencies. They use words in new ways that sound innocuous (endangered species, watershed planning, invasive species) and before we ordinary citizens know what happened, there are regulations to save, preserve and protect things that just happen to require government control of our resources. At this point, they used a lot of inaccurate and even fraudulent data to support their views, so we need to be constantly monitoring and researching what they say, so we have the information we need to fight back.

[lodwick]

Types of men:

Joe Sensitive - "After I wash the dishes, let's cuddle, OK?"
Also known as: Mr. Nice Guy, Family man, Honey, Darling, Soft-boiled Egg, Snugglepup
Advantages: Well-behaved; irons own shirts.
Disadvantages: Irritatingly compassionate, wimpy.

Old Man Grumpus - "People are stupid. The world can go to hell. Let's stay home and watch TV."
Also known as: Grumbles, Sour puss, Stick-in-the-mud, Old Fogey, Slow Mover, Jerk
Advantages: Stays put; predictable
Disadvantages: Royal pain in the ass.

Flinchy - "I--I'm sorry for whatever it was I did."
Also known as: Trembly, Creampuff, Hey you.
Advantages: Jumps entertainingly when startled
Disadvantages: Easily spooked; surrenders without a struggle.

Bigfoot - "Shut yer trap, I'm thinkin'."
Also known as: Chunk-style, Lummox, Ignoramus, Galoot, the Hulk, Big 'n' Dumb
Advantages: Can tote bales; is easily fooled
Disadvantages: Can break you in half, sweats like a pig.

Lazybones - "Zzzzzz"
Also known as: Lucky Dog, Parasite, Bum, Sponge, Snoozebucket, Drug Addict
Advantages: Well rested; easy target
Disadvantages: Unlikely to fulfull your dreams.

The Sneak - "Who, me?"
Also known as: Love Pirate, Snake, Rat, Slime, G-D Son of a Bitch
Advantages: May feel pangs of guilt
Disadvantages: May be having time of his life.

Ace of Hearts - "After I wash the dishes let's make love like crazed weasels, OK?"
Also known as: The Sizzler, Handyman, Dreamboat, Casanova, Monster
Advantages: Perpetually aroused
Disadvantages: Perpetually aroused.

The Dreamer - "Someday I'm going to be rich and famous. I don't know how, but--"
Also known as: Struggling Artist, Philosopher, Buffoon, Bag of Wind
Advantages: Tells good stories
Disadvantages: Will turn into "Old Man Grumpus".

Mr. Right - "While the servants wash the dishes, let's make love like crazed weasels in my new yacht, ok?"
Also known as: Mr. Perfect, Jim Dandy
Advantages: Answer to a woman's prayer
Disadvantages: Hunted to extinction.

[hedgetrimmer]

We are trying to convince our elected officials to cut off the funding for all this BS, but they say they can't go up against the environmentalists lobby

You know, no matter how powerful the environmentalists lobby is, it speaks very ill of a politician who would do their bidding when it violates the rights of the citizens he represents to a constitutional government and destroys America's culture and way of life.

These fellows should be summarily removed from office for abdicating their duty to protect citizens and giving power and authority to these groups are out to harm us.

But how hard is it to find a principled constitutionalist and get him or her elected to office? We need to do a lot better at getting qualified candidates nominated and elected.

[o_zarkman44]

Most of the people who push these "communtiy issues" are plants from other areas who want to make an area more to their liking.

Same in rural areas. A real life example is the area my father lives in. He has a farm. The land is in a relatively low population area because of agriculture being the predominant economy. People from urban areas have purchased several large acreages surrounding his farm.
One acreage is 600 plus acres to the north. They hunt the land so it has not affected the area much. One area is probably equally 600 acres to the west and south. The west and southern land boundarys a large creek with bluffs and extends at least a mile down the stream.

That property has been closed to hunting. It was a prime area for hunting. There have been "nature trails" developed, complete with park like benches. The owner contacted my father about purchasing some adjoining acreage from him. That acreage is prime hunting ground that we visit every year to harvest deer etc. Of course my father is a no sell.

Private ownership of land is a good thing. But there is a cancer being spread by self proclaimed environmentalists who own property for the sole purpose of preserving or restoring the land. I believe it will be not too many years and that very land will be a foothold to a public set aside. I don't know if this is the case with the new property owners, but the actions are very suspicious to other land owners, including my father.

Another aspect of rural land grabs. The CRP (conservation reserve program). CRP pays land owners cash rent to keep land out of production. CRP establishes native prarie grass and promotes reforestation. The farmer or landowner sets up an account with the USDA (US Dept of Agriculture) and promises to keep the land out of production for a period of years, 10 or more,in exchange for say $50 to $60 dollars an acre per year cash. The landowner gets the cash money to use for the basis for paying off the land. So the plan finances land purchases as well as pays the current landowner. The CRP transfers to a new landowner who is obligated by law to fulfill the land contract or be forced to reimburse the government for all the money paid for the prior years. There may be other stipulations that make it hard to reuse the land as it had been previously used.

Since there is but a few farms and property owners it is very easy to establish conservation areas and buffer zones. Agenda 21 seeks to establish population zones and rural zones. Ownership of rural propertys are by a significantly small portion of our population, so it is easy to impose regulations on farmers and ranchers that city dwellers ignore and in many cases promote.

Watershed Districts.
Another land grab is watershed districts. The US Corp of Engineers want to prevent flooding and soil erosion. So they designate a watershed that drains to a particular stream. If a landowner lives in that district they are taxed so as to provide flood protection and water quality monitoring down stream. Of course, in the watershed there are designated areas for wetlands restoration. And then there are conservation areas along the watershed for public access.

Every time government takes control of some land, the land is taken off of property tax rolls. This places a higher burden on the remaining landowners to make up for school and road taxes. Areas that have huge holdings of government land become economically depressed because of lost property tax revenue. Local government becomes financially strapped and the idea is floated to create regional government districts. That takes us back to the original context of this thread. Agenda 21 is all around us. Urban, rural, nobody is immune to all the "great ideas" to help preserve our "heritage". The outcome and objective of Agenda 21 completely undoes our national heritage. There is nothing more important in America than following the exact principles that brought our founding fathers here to seek freedom and land ownership.