Posted on 02/03/2005 4:58:33 AM PST by The Jitters
Both A380 and 787 have bright futures READERS Most media outlets and pundits have seemingly decided that "Airbus vs. Boeing" has to be reported as a boxing match, where, in the last round, somebody goes down for the count. Not so!
Much has been made of how Airbus and Boeing now have two opposite visions of the future. To a large extent, what we hear and read might as well have been cut and pasted from their respective marketing and PR departments, and is largely devoid of any meaningful analysis.
As one commercial jet manufacturer after another has either ceased to exist, been bought out by the competition, or quit manufacturing jets in this market segment, the world is left with only 2 players: "us" and "them." Hyperbolic accusations dominate the debate: Airbus lives on government subsidies, their giant A380 is a dinosaur, the 787 (formerly known as the 7E7) is a "plastic" plane, etc, Boeing’s days are numbered, etc.
Most of this is utter nonsense.
Does the A380 have a future? Airbus has built a plane that offers airlines better fuel efficiency, more comfort, greater range, and perhaps a chance to start making more money in a business that’s currently performing poorly as a whole. Much like the 747 did in the 1970s, the A380 represents a big bet on the future, seeking to transform aviation through economics of scale. Boeing has repeatedly asserted that the plane crams too many passengers together on one flight, that travelers want more non-stop point to point flights, and that the plane essentially is a dinosaur. These statements notwithstanding, at the end of January 2005, Airbus had 154 firm orders and commitments from 15 customers for its double decker “Super Jumbo,” almost 2/3 the number of orders needed for the project to break even (according to Airbus, the magic number is about 250). Though U.S. passenger carriers have yet to place orders, operators in emerging Asian markets in particular have determined that there is a great need for the 500+ passenger plane. Launch Customer Singapore Airlines, who has ordered 10 A380s, has stated that the new planes will be used "to expand operations to heavily traveled cities that have slot constraints." For Singapore it’s not about offering more point to point flights, but rather, to meet increasing demands within existing limitations.
So will this increased capacity come at the expense of passenger comfort? Airbus proposes that their A380-800 (the initial variant of the family’s 3 proposed stretches) seat 555 passengers in a typical 3 class configuration. With almost 50% more floor space than a 747 but only 35% more seats, each passenger will have more room. Many of the initial customers have announced they won’t even deploy that number of seats—Qantas, for example, will outfit their first 4 planes for only 501.
To prepare for the giant, airports around the world are widening and strengthening runwas and taxiways. Emirates, the single largest A380 customer with 45 ordered, already operates new ground-equipment designed to handle the new flagships at their Dubai hub, and are in the middle of terminal renovations that will greatly expand the size of their passenger facilities. Currently, about X number of airports will be ready for the A380 at its launch into service. However, there is no reason to doubt that the number will grow as demand increases.
So, is Boeing just engaging in some good old trash-talk? The two competitors cite very different estimates for future demand. Boeing doubts there is room for more than 320 such jets in the next 20 years; Airbus forecasts a whopping 1,500! Allowing for bias in both companies’ numbers, it seems the A380 program is on pretty sure footing. Projections for international air traffic estimate that passenger volume will double from 2000 to 2015. In many parts of the world, including the United States, airspace is already operating at (often dangerously) high levels of utilization. If there are no available landing slots available, it doesn’t matter if you’re flying point-to-point; you still can’t get a gate to pull in to. It would seem that the future most definitely looks bright for the A380.
So where does this leave Boeing’s 787? Like the A380, the 787 is trying to establish a new niche for itself. It is bringing greater speed, fuel efficiency, range and comfort to the 225 – 275 passenger segment. It will be available in 3 different configurations, competing in segments of the marketplace that already has many viable players; the A330-200, A321, and Boeing’s own 757-300 and 767 (which it officially replaces). Unlike the A380, the 787 will not need redesigned terminals or runways—from a purely utilitarian perspective, the 787 is not so much a new vision of aviation as it is a modernization of the state of the art. The novelty of the 787 is in part supposed to be the ability to fly much longer than other aircraft its size. It remains to be seen if enough city pairs exists worldwide that can support such traffic. Even if there aren’t, Boeing will deliver this aircraft in enough configurations, covering different capacities and ranges, to guarantee its place in aviation.
Most of the excitement—and uncertainty—revolves around the new processes and technologies to be incorporated into the jet. The fuselage will utilize unprecedented amounts of advanced composite materials. Until recently, Boeing wasn’t even sure how they would actually build this new plane that they had promised to deliver in only 3 or 4 years. They have now demonstrated the ability to build the bulk of the fuselage from one, long “pipe,” without the need to bolt pieces together. This allows for greater pressurization, and possibly—but not definitely—a lighter structure, both important to meet design goals. Some concerns have been raised about maintainability—how do you repair minor fuselage damage when you can’t replace individual panels? I have no doubt that Boeing has addressed this issue.
As you might have gleaned from the preceding, it is my opinion that neither Airbus nor Boeing is embarking on wildly different visions of the future. Rather, they are both making incremental improvements to existing technologies. It is likely that both jets will have prosperous futures.
While Boeing has now publicly stated that it is not pursuing its own supersized jumbo, it will continue to sell the 747 for as long as the market demands it. Airbus, for its part, has announced the A350, a competitor to the 787. The plane, a modernized, re-engined version of the A330, shows that Airbus has every intention of competing in this segment of the market as well.
In the midst of all the mudslinging, issues not relating directly to the quality of the product, or the vision for the future, have featured prominently. Loudest of all are accusations, primarily from Boeing and players in the U.S., that the playing field between Airbus and Boeing isn’t level because Airbus receives government subsidies and launch aid. I think it’s worth considering this issues.
First, let us immediately dispel the myth that Boeing goes it alone, operating in a “survival-of-the-fittest” economy that doesn’t hand out free money for R&D. Boeing’s history—and success—is intimately intertwined with Federal and State dollars and aid, even to this day. Several of Boeing’s most successful aircraft grew almost directly out of federally funded military projects: the 707 (and its closely related narrow body successors, the 727 and 737) drew on the KC 135 tanker program, and the 747 borrowed heavily from the C-5 military transporter design. More recently, the State of Washington, home to most of Boeing’s commercial airliner assembly plants, agreed to a generous $3.5 Billion incentive program to ensure that Boeing wouldn’t build its new 787 elsewhere. It has been estimated that for each $65,000-a-year job associated with the assembly of the new plane, Boeing will receive $160,000 a year in incentives. Hardly a company weaned off subsidies (and hardly a sweet deal for the people of Washington.)
The truth is that both companies receive direct aid, loans and subsidies. As Airbus has now outsold Boeing two years in a row, the subsidies-excuse is allowing Boeing shareholders and management to waste their energies on the wrong issues. Boeing’s product line-up is, with the exception of the 777, entirely designed in the 1960s and 1970s. Declining sales is not to be blamed on unfair competition, but rather, in my opinion, on management that has failed to reinvest in R&D and new product development. While Airbus’ 10 or so current models all have the same type rating, have extensive design commonalities, and are all based only two different fuselage cross-sections, Boeing’s line-up was as of two years ago a hodge-podge of 6 mostly different products, mostly poorly integrated, and, as mentioned, averaging 20 or more years of age. In the next few years we can expect all models except the 737 and 777 to disappear, or at least, decline severely. Seen in this context, it becomes clear that Boeing is again placing a bet on the future, and it needs the 787 program to be a success.
The 380 has no market. The EU is forcing small countries to buy it. Most US Airports can't support it's size.
Morning and welcome to Free Republic.
Thank you and good morning.
Do you think the 380 has a chance?
I pretty much agree with the article above.
It won't be much use on Houston to Detroit, but it probably will on NY - LA.
And it certainly will on London - Tokyo and suchlike.
But 1500 of them? No way.
No way that 1500 will be sold. Other than that I agree with the story.
Preach it from the mountain, brother! About time someone calls Boeing (or really, the old McDonnell-Douglas management) to account for it's missteps. The "EU subsidy" argument is getting tiresome.
I've no idea, but over a 30 year time span with lots of growth in airtravel (particularly from Asia), I can't rule it out.
I wish them luck but I don't see it.
Seriously now, does anyone honestly believe that in the next 20 years Airbus will sell 300 more A380s than Boeing sold 747s over 30 years?!!? No way the market is that big. Even with population increases, there will not be that many people wanting to fly frequently enough on enough routes for it to be profitable to use the A380. It has its place, they will sell enough to make the airplane profitable, but it will not be the success the 747 was.
As a frequent flyer all over the world, I have to agree with Boeings vision: I want to fly from Seattle to Nice, not Seattle to LA on a 737 or A320, then LA to Amsterdam on an A380, then Amsterdam to Nice on another 737 or A320. I don't want to go through customs with 800 of my closest friends, let alone sweaty, tired, cranky strangers. I've gone through baggage claim and customs when two 747s landed at the same time. It is not something I want to do again.
This could affect the Boeing deal if it happens to be true:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1334936/posts
The real crime is in the regional jet market. Embraer, Canadair, Dornier. Not a damn one made in the USA. How in the heck could our aviation industry so totally misread the demand??
I think that the necessary airport infrastructure changes will be made for the sake of the A380. The airlines flying it will insist. I surmise though that Boeing will produce a super jumbo of its own. Several years' experience with the A380 and further progress in materials science may permit Boeing to produce an even larger and superior aircraft.
It gets zero miles on zero gallons. Fuel efficient? It doesn't even have an engine.
Actually the 747 will not take much of a hit. They both fit into different market nitches and they both will sell. A few 747's might not get sold in places where people really wanted bigger but before there was nothing bigger. There are still many places where they want the size that the 747 is. The only time Aircraft REALLY compete for a market is when they are close to the same size and range and it is only a real fight if they are close in operation cost and price.
Exactly.
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