Republicans Squaring Off Over Bush Plan on Immigration

NY Times ^ | January 27, 2005 | DAVID D. KIRKPATRICK

[Joe Taranto]

Well, in a perfect world, that wouldn't be the case, but I guess it's not a perfect world. I don't argue that any "guest workers" or whatever they're going to be called should receive any kind of government aid. Their ability to stay here should be contingent on their employment and on their ability to meet their financial obligations, and that includes medical bills and all these issues that are being raised here.

But then again, maybe I'm being too ideal here.

[Marine Inspector]

LOL, agreed.

[Joe Hadenuf]

Well, if I can be truthful here, he's another race baiting, pro criminal individual. This has been well documented and memorialized on this site. Why they put up with these individuals, I don't know, and can only surmise, these individual are forking over money.

If anyone else has an explanation, I'd like to hear it.

[Marine Inspector]

Why they put up with these individuals, I don't know

Yes you do. Illegal immigration is not an issue with Jim Rob. Remember?

Hell, I even got a warning from him today.

[Joe Hadenuf]

I guess maybe I ought to shut up then, before I get a warning or axed.

But to be truthful again, I really don't give damn.

[neverdem]

One thing I think would be a good idea would be to pass a law withholding federal funds from cities that have sanctuary rules, where the police can't ask about a suspects immigration status.

I like the idea. If it was tied to the potential of public health concerns, i.e. such as the spread of drug resistant tuberculosis and Chagas' Disease, there might be a chance. Either public health arguments should be persuasive, or public health arguments should have no standing, especially with respect to second hand smoke.

[Dat Mon]

How old are you?

Old enough to know better, and to have seen a few things along the way.

And young enough to...

And you?

[Marine Inspector]

I really don't give damn.

Neither do I.

[janetgreen]

Hell, I even got a warning from him today.

YOU did? Join the crowd... :^)

[politicalwit]

Should I turn myself in? I haven't received a warning yet.

[Cindy]

"but something called SOVEREIGNTY does begin and end there."

You got a point.

[JeffAtlanta]

I would normally agree with federalist ideas, but this is definitely an idea which won't do what you're hoping it will at the state level.

Agreed. I am curious to what you think a realistic solution to this would be - many say that fencing and patrolling the border is not practical. I don't know...

I'm thinking that the best way to combat the problem is to allow the state governments to cut off social services to illegals - with a constitutional amendment if necessary. I am not usually one to want amendments, but it seems like the courts are interpreting the constitution as giving non-citzens the same rights as citizens.

The next step would be to go after employers. I know this resembles the failed war on drugs, but the number of employers are much smaller and easier to find since the illegal workers are in public.

I also don't buy the "they do jobs that American's won't do" line. Who did the jobs before illegals?

[JeffAtlanta]

Bush is 100% wrong on this issue and I will state that when need be, but, bashing him is wrong.

That is the problem - Bush knows its wrong but he's doing it anyway. Look, Bush really stepped up to the plate after 9/11 and he is lot better choice that Gore or Kerry, but he has basically been in a vote buying mode for 5 years.

He has tried to buy votes with the prescription bill. Then he tried it with the "No Child Left Behind" bill. He has always tried to buy votes buy looking the other way when it comes to immigration. He gave us a litle nibble on the tax cut buy really hasn't forced through anything really meaninful in terms of tax reform.

If Bush doesn't step up to the plate on issues like really matter then we are going to get another 8 years of a democratic president.

[Dat Mon]

You said..."Their ability to stay here should be contingent on their employment and on their ability to meet their financial obligations, and that includes medical bills and all these issues that are being raised here."

I totally agree.

In all fairness, that is one criteria that proponents of a guest worker bill could use as a rationale...and it would be a valid one IF they promised that the language requiring the employers to provide the insurance and health coverage and other social costs such as education, child care, etc. was mandatory in the bill, and IF the enforcement and border security precedent had already been established to vigorously enforce immigration laws.

So, in effect, with an effective guest worker bill..all the existing illegals collecting gov handouts would suddenly be covered by employers health and insurance policies.

But can we realistically expect that to happen?

I doubt it, considering the fact that the rate of illegal immigration has outstripped the rate of new job creation, so one has to assume that a sizable proportion of illegals are currently unemployed. What happens to these people with a guest worker bill?

Of course, then the question becomes, if you require an employer to pay the same costs for a guest worker across the board, maybe higher if you include mandatory health coverage, then where is the incentive to pursue the program in the first place?

Would proponents of a guest worker bill go along with the provision that only the worker himself was allowed in to work...NOT the family? If we need labor...why do we need the attendant social costs of the family as well?

If employers are willing to pay a premium to acquire labor resources they cannot get, and must have to expand or function, then that is one thing.

If they are looking for a cheap, easy way to grow business and increase profits by underbidding the American labor market, using big daddy gov as an enabler, then that is quite another thing.

[Reaganwuzthebest]

If Bush doesn't step up to the plate on issues like really matter then we are going to get another 8 years of a democratic president.

Can you say Hillary? She's waiting to pounce on this issue in the 2008 election.

[Marine Inspector]

Should I turn myself in? I haven't received a warning yet.

Your not trying hard enough. Keep at it.

[JeffAtlanta]

Can you say Hillary? She's waiting to pounce on this issue in the 2008 election.

I agree. Seriously, I would like to hear a good, cogent argument on why illegals are good for this country. The "they do work American's won't do" isn't a good one as someone had to do the work before the illegals. Its also not a fair point since illegals do the work on a cash basis without having social security, Medicare or income tax constraints.

I'm still waiting to see what the difference between a democratic president and George W Bush will be. If Bush is going to grow the government with silly, useless programs while ignoring our borders then why have him? The fight against terrorism is useless if we going to leave our borders unguarded - we would be better to just have a democrat come in a buy off the terrorists.

[Reaganwuzthebest]

I would like to hear a good, cogent argument on why illegals are good for this country.

They're not except for the corporations who profit off of them. I do think this is the last open borders president we're going to see, by 2008 both candidates will be in competition over who can be tougher about getting all immigration under control.

[holyscroller]

"Another urban rumor that has been dispelled. Hospitals don't go out of business because they have too many patients, they go out of business when they have too few."

Bayourod you are hopeless. Hospitals go out of business WHEN THEY DON'T GET PAID!!! It takes PAYING patients to pay the bills. Illegals don't pay, they just mooch for free.

[Indie]

Bayorod routinely comes on here with his vile race baiting, open border, party before country crap, and you get warned? Something is very, very wrong with this picture.

Yep and has been for a long time...now I'LL get SUSPENDED for that. /probably true sarc