Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

The Fruits of Appeasement [Carter and the genesis of the Iran problem]
City Journal ^ | Spring 2004 | Victor Davis Hanson

Posted on 01/22/2005 6:11:42 PM PST by nwrep

click here to read article


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-33 last
To: RaceBannon

USAF RF-4s used to fly over Russia through Iranian Air Space


21 posted on 01/22/2005 9:08:51 PM PST by F14 Pilot (Democracy is a process not a product)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: FDNYRHEROES

Thanks for pointing out my mistake: it should be 12/7/1941, of course


22 posted on 01/22/2005 9:15:12 PM PST by risk
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: Alberta's Child

In his memoirs, "Present at the Creation", Dean Acheson (Sec'y of State under Truman) expressed a lot of respect for Mossadeq.

I think that Guatemala was a similar situation, where the Eisenhower administration overthrew a democratically elected leftist who probably was benign.

In contrast, Eisenhower forced the British, French, and Israelis to withdraw from their take-over of the Suez canal from Nasser, a real bad guy.

Jewish scholarship has a bitter saying about King Saul: "Because he was kind when he should have been cruel (to King Agog), he ended up being cruel when he should have been kind (to David)."

Maybe U.S. was cruel when it should have been kind (Mossadez, Arbeniz), and ended up being kind when it should have been cruel (Nasser, Arafat, Khomeini).


23 posted on 01/22/2005 11:47:07 PM PST by kenavi ("Remember, your fathers sacrificed themselves without need of a messianic complex." Ariel Sharon)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: FDNYRHEROES
"More American civilians died on 9/11/2001 than 7/12/1941"

Really bad to use American and European dates in the same sentence.
24 posted on 01/22/2005 11:55:31 PM PST by HuntsvilleTxVeteran (So I talk to myself, at least I am talking to a mind that is my equal)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: nwrep

The soviets were bogged down in Afghanistan by fighting doctrine, not aircraft to aircraft dogfights or anti-ship missiles launched form their Kresta and Krivak class destroyers or their Alpha's or Oscars or Foxtrot subs we spotted in the Arabian Sea and Indian ocean.

Remember, India was friendly to the Soviets then, so was Yemen and a few other places.

http://rescueattempt.tripod.com/id4.html

I have a page there on some of the soviets that were following us around then. It was a matter of who shot first when it came to the big guns, not a matter of who had the better fighting man.

Much is exaggerated about how the average soviet soldier would surrender at the sight of a single American armed with an M-16, people forget the Russians braved the coldest winters to slaughter the NAZIS, living off wallpaper paste.

If they came to fight, and since we were on their borders, I would expect them to fight and fight hard to keep us away from their borderrs, just like we would for the Mexico scenario.

They only had 100,000 troops in Afghanistan then anyways, first invasion force was about 10,000 troops, they built up slow.

What I meant with my original post was heavy weapons, nukes, and ship to ship missiles.


25 posted on 01/23/2005 6:27:40 AM PST by RaceBannon (((awaiting new tag line)))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: Alberta's Child
The coup of Mossadegh was a necessity, though.

While we took away the democratic election he won, he was becoming a lunatic.

There is a new book out called THE PERSIAN PUZZLE, a great read, I put it down last week, have to work on it more, but it has more detail on Iranian history than I ever read in our papers. Iran has been the whipping boy of the mid east for some time, the Russians, the Brits especially.

But when Mossadegh won, he then turned to the soviets to try to enter their sphere of influence, and there was no way that much oil and a warm water port could be allowed to be in the hands of the soviets.

Plus, some accounts had Mossadegh answering the door in his jammies...important people...in his jammies...

The guy had to go.
26 posted on 01/23/2005 6:35:57 AM PST by RaceBannon (((awaiting new tag line)))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: risk

Yes, but some of us fully expected it, with the history of attacks (suppose 1993 WTC had succeeded, for example). The author shouldn't use his own lack of forethought and understanding as support for an argument that we should have done something different a quarter of a century ago.

Not that I think Carter gets off the hook for Iran, but the author is being ridiculous to say this wasn't predicted (I have witnesses to my personal predictions of it, for example--both the WTC target and the planes as suicide weapons--and didn't Clancy predict something similar?). At least, however, they are now realizing that the Super Bowl, pipelines, tunnels, and other sites are potential targets.


27 posted on 01/23/2005 7:08:27 AM PST by Gondring (They can have my Bill of Rights when they pry it from my cold, dead hands!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: RaceBannon
Plus, some accounts had Mossadegh answering the door in his jammies...important people...in his jammies...

If irrational behavior were a legitimate reason to topple a foreign head of state, then any nation in the world would have been well within its rights to topple the U.S. government at any time from January 1993 through December of 2000.

28 posted on 01/23/2005 12:48:51 PM PST by Alberta's Child (It could be worse . . . I could've missed my calling.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: RaceBannon
Plus, some accounts had Mossadegh answering the door in his jammies...important people...in his jammies...

The first pajamahadeen :^)

29 posted on 01/23/2005 12:49:51 PM PST by NeoCaveman (Problem hotline: to cope with PEST press 1, to yell we're all doomed press 2)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: Alberta's Child

touche'!


30 posted on 01/23/2005 2:41:53 PM PST by RaceBannon (((awaiting new tag line)))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: sionnsar

Plus, j carter didn't try and renegotiate the lease we had with the Panamanian government, so the lease ran out. NOW we have a chinese company "controlling" both ends of the Panama canal.


31 posted on 01/23/2005 5:50:35 PM PST by tillacum
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: tillacum
Plus, j carter didn't try and renegotiate the lease we had with the Panamanian government, so the lease ran out. NOW we have a chinese company "controlling" both ends of the Panama canal.

Hutchison Whampoa, if I remember correctly. Bad news.

(Are you in WA state too?)

32 posted on 01/23/2005 6:13:14 PM PST by sionnsar († trad-anglican.faithweb.com † || Iran Azadi || Kiev County: http://www.soundpolitics.com)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: sionnsar

No, but I did go to school there.


33 posted on 01/24/2005 6:06:24 AM PST by tillacum
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-33 last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson