Posted on 01/15/2005 6:50:11 AM PST by Mad Dawg
Man says he shot neighbor in self-defense
By Rebecca Nolan
The Register-Guard
James Michael Winkelman says he fatally shot a neighbor in self-defense when the other man threatened him with a gun.
He says 43-year-old Todd Alan Hughes pulled a handgun on him Tuesday as Winkelman tried to detain the man for police. Winkelman's daughter believed that Hughes had raped a woman in the street, and Winkelman was trying to make sure he didn't disappear before officers arrived.
Now Winkelman, 48, is struggling to deal with the fact that he took another person's life. It hasn't been easy.
"I don't feel happy and proud," Winkelman said Thursday. "I feel like I killed a human being. I caused a lot of pain for his family, and I caused a lot of pain for my family. We're devastated."
Winkelman decided to tell his story so people would understand that "I'm not some kind of gun-happy nut that my daughter tells me someone's being raped and I just go down there and shoot someone."
It was more complicated than that, he said.
Winkelman looks tough, but his body has been destroyed by a series of violent car wrecks that fractured nearly every bone. He also suffers from Meniere's syndrome, a disease of the inner ear that affects balance and hearing.
Because of these vulnerabilities, he obtained a concealed handgun permit and carries a gun whenever he leaves the house. He was carrying a 9mm Smith & Wesson handgun on Tuesday night when he went out to walk one of the two family dogs.
His 13-year-old daughter ran up to him out of breath and hysterical. She said a man with long red hair was raping a woman on the sidewalk at the corner of West 13th Avenue and Garfield Street. She said the woman was screaming for help and for someone to call the police. She said she saw the man run into the house at 2020 W. 13th Ave.
Winkelman doesn't have a cell phone, so he and his daughter ran to a house on Arthur Street and flagged down a neighbor. The girl went to call police, and the neighbor drove Winkelman to the house so he could wait for officers to arrive.
Winkelman said he saw someone peeking out through the window. "I said, `Dude, the police are coming. Stay in the house,' " Winkelman said. Soon, though, Winkelman saw a man stepping out of the backyard onto West 13th.
"I ran over to him and confronted him," Winkelman said. "I told him, `My daughter said you were raping a person. Sit down on the porch and wait for police.' "
The man said he hadn't done anything. He said the woman was his wife; they were drunk; they'd had a fight. The man continued to walk west, away from the house. Winkelman told him over and over to sit down and wait for police.
"He had his back to me," Winkelman said. "He stuck his hands in his pockets and was fumbling around. I said, `Get your ... hands out of your pockets.' "
That's when Winkelman drew his gun from its holster. He had the safety on and his finger was on the frame, not the trigger, he said. He said he ordered the man four times to put his hands where he could see them.
Instead, the man turned around and started to walk back toward the house. "He was looking right at me," Winkelman said. "I showed him I was taking the safety off and putting my finger on the trigger."
He said he ordered the man to stop and show his hands 20 to 25 times. The man did stop, right in front of the house. He and Winkelman were about three feet apart.
Winkelman said the man whipped around and pulled a semiautomatic handgun from his pocket. He remembers it had pearl inlay on the grip.
"It was so close I tried to hit it out of the way with my left hand," Winkelman said. "At the same time, I dropped my gun down toward my waist and started firing.
"I popped off five rounds," he said. "I kept shooting until he dropped the pistol. He fell to the ground and rolled over."
Winkelman thought he heard the man say something. He leaned closer and realized he was hearing gurgling noises caused by a sucking chest wound. His six years experience in the Army told him that CPR would increase the damage. So he started screaming for an ambulance. He ran to Garfield Street and shouted for passing cars to call 911. Finally, a neighbor walked out with a cell phone, and Winkelman spoke to dispatchers.
An officer arrived and shined a bright light on Winkelman, who slowly set the weapon down in the street. He said he complied with the officer's orders. He noticed that he was shaking violently and hyperventilating. Detectives took him to City Hall, where they interviewed him until about midnight. Winkelman said they believed his story and returned his concealed weapons permit, though they kept the gun for evidence.
"They said, `Look, you're going home tonight,' " Winkelman said. "They said if they had any doubts about what I was telling them, I would not be going home tonight."
Police have said Winkelman is cooperating with the investigation. Police spokeswoman Pam Olshanski said she could not confirm Winkelman's story until the investigation is complete. She said the Lane County district attorney's office will decide whether to file any charges.
Winkelman couldn't explain why Hughes' girlfriend later said Hughes wasn't raping her. She told police he was beating her that night.
He said he empathized with Hughes' family and friends, who have been congregating at the house since the night he died. He said he'd only encountered the man twice before while walking his dog down the street - and those two interactions persuaded him to avoid the area.
Winkelman said he was trying to be a good citizen. "I'm not a police officer, but I'm certainly not going to let someone accused of a crime like that go wandering off," he said. "He may have been a really great person, but he was out there beating the living hell out of that woman on the street."
And how did the shooter let the bogie get that close to him? 3 feet is way too close unless you're pretty confident the bogie is disarmed.
I don't like this story 100%
He's a Dumbass. He better have a good self defence argument.
1) He was carrying a Smith & Wesson. Get rid of that piece of crap and buy a real pistol.
2) He only shot him five times. The magazine probably held at least eight. Three should have gone in the trashbag's skull.
3) He feels bad about shooting this piece of garbage. It would make sense to feel bad if he MISSED, but he didn't.
But all in all, a story with a happy ending.
Maybe he wasn't. Winkelman didn't see anything. He just had someone else's description of what happened.
"I'm not a police officer, but I'm certainly not going to let someone accused of a crime like that go wandering off,"
The guy wasn't "wandering off" until Winkelman went to his house.
If the other guy had shot Winkelman would it have been a "good shooting" since he was being threatened by a man with a gun? Of course Hughes is described as having long hair so that may make it OK.
I agree. Seems the first rule of self defense is to not needlessly place yourself in danger in the first place. I think he overstepped his bounds and responsibilities. He knew who the man was, he was perfectly capable of identifying him, and he knew where he lived. Once he knew all those things he should have simply made himself available to testify once the man had been apprehended by the police. I think he should be charged with manslaughter.
Knowing the identity of the suspect, he should have waited for police and told them his story. Intervening with deadly force in a crime is only permissible when life or limb is in imminent danger. Here, the danger had passed. A citizen's right to stop and detain a criminal is subject to question, although a citizen would not be constrained by the 4th Amendment. This incident is very interesting legally, but I'm sure the man realizes there were other options. Deadly force is permanent. 'It's a helluva thing to kill a man.'
ExcuhYOOZE MOI?
My absolutely fave handgun is my 686P. "Did he fire 7 shots, or only 6?" But I like my sigs pretty much too.
That's one gun that the guy will probably never see again.
I, too, find a lot to question here--the first thing being that this all came about because of something a 13 yr old kid said!
Certainly, if he knew the guy was in the house, he should have left well enough alone, and waited for the police to handle the situation.
.
Smith makes great revolvers, I've owned several. Their automatics leave much to be desired, however. Every time I see a cop carrying a S&W auto, I always feel like going over and expressing my sympathy to him. Of course, they'd think I was being a smart-ass, so I don't.
I have a 5906 that was a police contract over-run that I purchased brand new. It jammed with factory ammo on the third magazine. It's frightening to think that our men and women in law enforcement have to cope with this kind of equipment.
Yeah, there ought to be some kind of generic stipulation so that you could get your gun back right away.
Get rid of that piece of crap and buy a real pistol.
...........................................................
What handgun do you recommend?
Oh no! He killed Carrot Top.
Personally I'm a fan of creative spelling. And, if guns cause crime, then keyboards cause spelling mistakes so I think you should lighten up, okay? ;)
Seriously, the more I read this, the more I think that (a) If this gets in front of a grand jury, things may change; and (b) maybe the dead guy was universally acknowledged (or at least the police might have thought so) to have "needed killin'", since everything else about this shoot is, at best, questionable.
Somebody comes up to me out of the blue and says,"I think you just attempted rape and I don't want you to go anywhere and I'm drawing my weapon to see that you don't," I'd charge the sucker with assault. I must be missing something here.
everything else about this shoot is, at best, questionable
Winkelman may, just may, not get indicted. I'll be mildly surprised if he's not. He will need a good lawyer for the civil suit "the victim's" relatives will bring. Getting his gun back from the police may just be another asset for him to lose in the civil case.
I think you just attempted rape and I don't want you to go anywhere and I'm drawing my weapon to see that you don't,"
The guy was happy to let him stay in his own house. The reason he followed him was because he was walking away.
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