Posted on 01/13/2005 8:10:49 AM PST by Rutles4Ever
(AGI) - Vatican City, 12 Jan - The Pope commented today on the Apocalypse before the 7,000 people attending the General Papal Audience today in the Nervi Hall, indicating that the fight between good and evil, personified by Satan, is a very hard one, as shown by the manifold violence and injustice in the world today, however the outcome is certain, evil will be vanquished. Pope John Paul II explained, "God and the Lamb, Christ, surrounded by the 'Council of the Crown', are judging human history in good and evil, but showing us however the ultimate end in salvation and glory. The songs which are found in the Apocalypse and which serve to illustrate the issue of divine glory which regulates the flux, often disconcerting, of the tide of human events". Of great significance is the first part of the hymn intoned by the 24 ancients who seem to incarnate the chosen people in their two historic stages, the twelve tribes of Israel and the twelve apostles of the Church. The Pope continued, Satan, the original adversary, who accused our brothers in the heavenly court, has now been cast down from heaven and therefore no longer has great power. He knows he has not much time left because history is about to see a radical turning point in freedom from evil and therefore he is reacting full of great fury. And then the resurrected Christ will rise up, whose blood is the principle of salvation and who received from the Father royal power over the entire universe, in Him are centred salvation, strength and the kingdom of our God. In his victory are associated the Christian martyrs who chose the path of the cross, not yielding to evil and it virulence, but delivering themselves to the Father and uniting themselves to the death of Christ by means of a testimony of donation and courage which brought them to give up life in order to die". He concluded, "the words of the Apocalypse regarding those who have vanquished Satan and evil through the blood of the Lamb, echo also in the splendid prayer attributed to the Christian martyr Simeon, from Seleucia-Ctesifonte in Persia, 'I will receive life without pain, worry, anguish, persecutor, persecuted, oppressor, oppressed, tyrant or victim, there I will see no threat of king, or terror of prefects, no-one will quote me in court or terrorise me and no-one will drag me or scare me". (AGI) . 121425 GEN 05
did you not see the "/s" at the end? It was "sarcasm".
"Romanists"
Your kind of namecalling is something that most of us stop doing in the 5th grade.
haha!
M-PI: "Really? And what do Romanists get for consigning Protestants to destruction (damning them to hell) with their curses?" /s
"If anyone says that the sinner is justified by faith alone, meaning thereby that no other cooperation is required for him to obtain grace of justification, and that in no sense is it necessary for him to make preparation and be disposed by a movement of his own will: let him be anathema" (Council of Trent, Session 6, "Decree on Justification," Canon 9)." /s
CouncilofTrent: "did you not see the "/s" at the end? It was "sarcasm"."
Oh - OK. To show that I was just kidding, too, I re-did what I wrote and put those little "/s" at the end. [see above]
CouncilofTrent: "Romanists" Your kind of namecalling is something that most of us stop doing in the 5th grade."
Referring to a ROMAN Catholic as a "Romanist" is "name calling"? If you were called by any other name, would that change the dogma?
Romanist is frequently used as a derogatory remark.
Used by whom---those that don't appreciate efforts to damned them to hell with novel curses?"
"If anyone says that the sinner is justified by faith alone, meaning thereby that no other cooperation is required for him to obtain grace of justification, and that in no sense is it necessary for him to make preparation and be disposed by a movement of his own will: let him be anathema" (Council of Trent, Session 6, "Decree on Justification," Canon 9)."
It was not until 1546, at the Council of Trent, that the Roman Catholic Church officially declared the Apocrypha to be part of the canon (with the exception of 1 and 2 Esdras and the prayer of Manasseh).
It is significant that the Council of Trent was the response of the Roman Catholic Church to the teachings of Martin Luther and the rapidly spreading Protestant Reformation, and the fact that the books of the Apocrypha contain support for the Roman Catholic Church's teaching of prayers for the dead and the justification by faith plus works, not by faith alone.
In 1546, at the time they affirmed the Apocrypha to be within the canon, the Roman Catholic Church said that they had the authority to constitute A LITERARY WORK to be "Scripture". ..." Wayne Grudem [paraphrased from Systematic Theology-Zondervan]
I don't understand why you posted it. Its non-sequitur.
According to the Council of Rome in 382:
"Now indeed we must treat of the divine Scriptures, what the universal Catholic Church accepts and what she ought to shun. The order of the Old Testament begins here: Genesis, one book; Exodus, one book; Leviticus, one book; Numbers, one book; Deuteronomy, one book; Joshua [Son of] Nave, one book; Judges, one book; Ruth, one book; Kings, four books [that is, 1 and 2 Samuel and 1 and 2 Kings]; Paralipomenon [Chronicles], two books; Psalms, one book; Solomon, three books: Proverbs, one book; Ecclesiastes, one book; Canticle of Canticles, one book; likewise Wisdom, one book; Ecclesiasticus, one book . . . . Likewise the order of the historical [books]: Job, one book; Tobit, one book; Esdras, two books [Ezra and Nehemiah]; Esther, one book; Judith, one book; Maccabees, two books" (Decree of Pope Damasus).
WRONG! The following quote clearly indicates that the modern concept of the rapture was understood in the early church and is much much older than 175 years.
What's more it's clear in the scripture. I've already posted the verses that say, alive Christians will meet Jesus in the air after the dead in Christ rise. Tell me what your view makes of that statement.
"All the saints and elect of God are gathered together before the tribulation, which is to come, and are taken to the Lord, in order that they may not see at any time the confusion which overwhelms the world because of our sins."-Pseudo-Ephraem (c. 374-627)
Ancient Pretrib rapture statement
There's a real rapture and a real tribulation coming! I don't know when. But it might be in our lifetimes.
In addition, I don't know what you mean by "secret" rapture. Any event where all true Christians dissappear from the earth simultaneously, isn't likely to be "secret".
I think people are going to sit up and take notice. Hopefully, if we have talked about Revelations and haven't dismissed it as irrevelant, the people remaining will recognize the rapture for what it is and seek repentance and salvation. But it doesn't look like very many will.
I don't think you even know what purgatory is, do you?
****
The place and state in which souls suffer for a while and are purged after death,before they to to Heaven on account of their sins. Venial sins which have never in life been remitted by an act of repentence or love or by good deeds, and grave sins, the guilt of which with its eternal punishment has indeed been removed by God after an act of repentence but for which there is still left a debt of temporal punishment due to his injustice on account of the imperfection of that repentance, must be purged away after death by the pain of intense longing for God, whose blissful vision is delayed, and also as is commonly taught, by some pain of sense inflicted probably by material fire. It is of faith that those in Purgatory can be helped by the prayers and sacrifices of the faithful on earth and especially by the accepted Sacrifice of the Alter.
There is your purgatory. Your counterfeit jesus can't seem to do much of anything, and he sure didn't pay for your sins in full because you will still suffer for whatever ones your church decides it is fitting for you to suffer for. I'll keep my Jesus thank you, He bought and paid for me in full, I won't owe anyone anything. Not to mention He made ME the temple of God not some billion dollar glittzy looking building which means nothing and will burn.
I like your profile. a lot.
Returning back to the reason for this thread, I invite you and all posting on this thread to visit:
http://www.preparetoleave.com/home.html
The question is this: What will each of us DO with this warning and the warning coming from present-day prophets. Regardless of our differences in theology (and I know how aggrevating it can be), we will all, Catholic and Protestant, face Christ one on one.
We cannot depend on the teachings of man, religion or anything else because the Bible teaches that great deception will come upon the earth. If any of us think we have the whole picture, we are mistaken.
Daniel was told to seal up one of his visions for it was for a time of the end. New revelation is coming from God in His timing. He is doing a new thing. He is calling each of us into a most intense fellowship with Him in these last days to receive from Him directly. To dwell with Him in His Secret Place (Ps. 91). In plain English, shut yourself in with Him, pour out your heart, lay down your life anew and submit to His will. This being an honest conversation, not repeated prayers.
We have got to take the warnings very personally for self-reflection. Ask God to show you your sins, that we all may be included in the spotless Bride that He deserves.
We cannot depend on the teachings of man, religion or anything else because the Bible teaches that great deception will come upon the earth. If any of us think we have the whole picture, we are mistaken.
****
Amen!! But God has shown me WHO the whore is and He says...."COME OUT of her my people, so you will NOT receive the judgements I am about to bring on her."
HE is not letting us play church anymore!! Time to rise up and BE the church. TIME is short. REPENT!!
I AM NOT trying to do anything but get people to listen to what the Spirit of Lord is saying!! My message is no more aggressive than Christ's was. I am offering nothing but Faith, Hope ,Love and salvation, you don't have to pay me a dime for it. And in that Love I will tear the doctrines of devils of the whore to shreds, her and her daughters!!!
Because they consume the souls of men and to me the WAR is escalateing, and I will fight it with everything that is in me!! "There is a way that seems right unto man that leads to DESTRUCTION."
I was doing some more Bible reading this morning on all of this, and got sidetracked, but thought I'd check in to see what was happening.
Maybe we get a little too hung up on terms like 'THE Antichrist' and 'the Rapture'. Jesus said there were MANY antichrists, and he had come already:
1Jo 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
1Jo 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would [no doubt] have continued with us: but [they went out], that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.....
1Jo 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1Jo 2:23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: [[but] he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also]. http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/1Jo/1Jo002.html#18
There are a whole LOT of these people, EVEN in the church, and that's our main problem. They have denied the Lord who bought them, and let the enemy into our midst: http://www.blueletterbible.org/tsk_b/2Pe/2/1.html
On 'the Rapture', Jesus said:
Jhn 17:15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil. http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Jhn/Jhn017.html#15
also:
Mat 6:13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.
Once again, we see the Kingdom is the Lord's FOR EVER.
Dan 2:44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, [but] it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand FOR EVER. +++ http://www.blueletterbible.org/tsk_b/Dan/2/44.html +++
Dan 2:45 Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: +++ and the dream [is] certain, and the interpretation thereof sure. http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Dan/Dan002.html#44
and:
Psa 104:5 [Who] laid the foundations of the earth, [that] it should NOT BE REMOVED FOR EVER.
http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Psa/Psa104.html#5
It is the WICKED that will be removed:
Psa 104:35 Let the sinners be consumed out of the earth, and let the wicked be no more. Bless thou the LORD, O my soul. Praise ye the LORD. http://www.blueletterbible.org/tsk_b/Psa/104/35.html
Remember we still have this to look forward to:
Rev 3:12 Him that OVERCOMETH wll I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, [which is] NEW Jerusalem, WHICH COMETH DOWN OUT OF HEAVEN from my God: and [I will write upon him] my new name. [CHRISTian! see Ephesians 3:14 - 15 http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Eph/Eph003.html#15 ].
http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Rev/Rev003.html#12
http://www.blueletterbible.org/tsk_b/Rev/3/12.html
Isa 62:6 I have set watchmen upon thy walls, O Jerusalem, [which] shall never hold their peace day nor night: ye that make mention of the LORD, keep not silence,
Isa 62:7 And give him no rest, till he establish, and till he make Jerusalem a praise in the earth. http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Isa/Isa062.html#7
Isa 62:1 — For Zion's sake will I not hold my peace, and for Jerusalem's sake I will not rest, until the righteousness thereof go forth as brightness, and the salvation thereof as a lamp [that] burneth.
http://www.blueletterbible.org/tsk_b/Isa/62/1.html
Now one thing you should know is that the OLD Jerusalem, where they deny the Son, is not the same as the NEW Jerusalem.
And, BTW, remember that THE BIBLE [that the popes used to burn] does not say that MARY is the mother of us all, blessed though she may be, but the JERUSALEM WHICH IS ABOVE [and which came/comes? down out of heaven] is the mother of us all:
http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Gal/Gal004.html#26
As it was in Noah's day.....it was the UNGODLY that were taken away. You don't want to be taken away. The enemy has deceived you with fairy tales so that you will lay down your 'arms', and not CONTEND FOR THE FAITH:
http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Jud/Jud001.html#3
2Cr 10:4 (For the weapons of our warfare [are] not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;)
2Cr 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ; http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/2Cr/2Cr010.html#4
Therefore:
Eph 6:11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Eph/Eph006.html#10 to verse 18.
The choice is ours: overcomers or fearful?
Rev 21:7 He that OVERCOMETH shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
Rev 21:8 But the FEARFUL, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Rev/Rev021.html#8
He didn't say it would be a picnic. He said to take up the Cross. [more on that later.] I KNOW it gets heavy, believe me, I know it.
Here are some easy introductions to the world of Preterism [check all against the Bible]:
BIBLE PROPHECY END TIMES NOW? http://www.bibleprophecy.com/
Bible prophecy books reveal end times answers http://www.bibleprophecy.com/bible_prophecy_books.html [Including 'Leaving the Rapture BEHIND', and 'Seal Up Vision and Prophecy' - A study of the 70 weeks of Daniel. The emphasis of this prophecy is not future hysteria but historical realization...]
SERVANT OF THE REIGNING CHRIST
http://www.ourchurch.com/member/a/ad70/
Now that's an overcomer attitude!
Isa 52:15 So shall he sprinkle many nations; THE KINGS SHALL SHUT THEIR MOUTHS AT HIM: for [that] which had not been told them shall they see; and [that] which they had not heard shall they consider. http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Isa/Isa052.html#15
http://www.blueletterbible.org/tsk_b/Isa/52/15.html
Phl 2:9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: http://www.blueletterbible.org/tsk_b/Phl/2/9.html
Phl 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of [things] in heaven, and [things] in earth, and [things] under the earth; http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Phl/Phl002.html#10
Just understand the Whore wears MANY faces, the better to deceive.
Thank, it was a pleasure to put together.
Re #145:
'Every Catholic priest is ordained in Christ to say, "In Christ Jesus I became your father through the Gospel" (1st Cor. 4:15). ' [which says:]
1Cr 4:15 — For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet [have ye] not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.
This is curious, as James 1:18 says JESUS begat us through His Word:
Jam 1:18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.
'I love it when so-called "Bible" Christians display their depth of scriptural ignorance. The funny thing is that they seem to think the Bible was written by some guy in Milwaukee in the English language and that they can pick and choose which portions are to be heeded. These are the same people who proclaim that, since the Bible says Jesus had people close to him referred to as "brothers", that means Mary and Joseph had children after Jesus. They ignore the fact that early Scripture was written in the Hebrew, then Greek, then Latin. By the fourth translation, into English, there are cultural specificities lost along the way. And yet, the Bible is replete with references to people other than God as "father"...
Judges 17:10, the Ephraimite Micah asks a transient Levite, "Stay with me; be father and priest to me."
Later (Judges 18:19), a Danite war party persuades the same Levite to leave Micah, saying: "Come with us and be our father and priest." THE BIBLE FINDS PRIESTHOOD AND FATHERHOOD INSEPARABLY UNITED ...'
Now, are you SURE you want to use THOSE PEOPLE as an example?
Mich STOLE FROM HIS MOTHER. When he 'fessed up and returned the money, SHE USED THE MONEY TO MAKE IDOLS:
Jdg. 17:4 ....his mother took two hundred [shekels] of silver, and gave them to the founder, who made thereof a graven image and a molten image: and they were in the house of Micah.
Jdg 17:5 And the man Micah had an house of gods, and made an ephod, and teraphim, and consecrated one of his sons, who became his priest.
Jdg 17:6 In those days [there was] no king in Israel, [but] every man did [that which was] right in his own eyes.
Along comes the LEVITE, of the tribe God chose to be His priests, and he was happy to live among the idols:
Jdg 17:12 And Micah consecrated the Levite; and the young man became his priest, and was in the house of Micah.
Jdg 17:13 Then said Micah, Now know I that the LORD will do me good, seeing I have a LEVITE to [my] priest. [Think so? http://www.blueletterbible.org/tsk_b/Jdg/17/13.html ]
Now along comes the tribe of Dan, and they inquire of the PRIEST [false prophet living among idols]:
Jdg 18:5 And they said unto him, Ask counsel, we pray thee, of God, that we may know whether our way which we go shall be prosperous.
Jdg 18:6 And the priest said unto them, Go in peace: before the LORD [is] your way wherein ye go.
So they go into the city renamed Laish after God judged it by sending in lions, but first:
Jdg 18:17 And the five men that went to spy out the land went up, [and] came in thither, [and] took the graven image, and the ephod, and the teraphim, and the molten image: and the priest stood in the entering of the gate with the six hundred men [that were] appointed with weapons of war.
Jdg 18:18 And these went into Micah's house, and fetched the carved image, the ephod, and the teraphim, and the molten image. Then said the priest unto them, What do ye?
Jdg 18:19 And they said unto him, Hold thy peace, lay thine hand upon thy mouth, and go with us, and be to us a father and a priest: [is it] better for thee to be a priest unto the house of one man, or that thou be a priest unto a tribe and a family in Israel? [major, major, major turning point in the history of mankind, and not for the better!]
Jdg 18:20 And the priest's heart was glad, and he took the ephod, and the teraphim, and the graven image, and went in the midst of the people.
Jdg 18:21 So they turned and departed, and put the little ones and the cattle and the carriage before them. [how brave]....
Jdg 18:27 And they took [the things] which Micah had made, and the priest which he had, and came unto Laish, unto a people [that were] at quiet and secure: and they smote them with the edge of the sword, and burnt the city with fire.
Jdg 18:28 And [there was] no deliverer, because it [was] far from Zidon, and they had no business with [any] man; and it was in the valley that [lieth] by Bethrehob. And they built a city, and dwelt therein.
Jdg 18:29 And they called the name of the city Dan after the name of Dan their father, [another milestone in history http://www.blueletterbible.org/tsk_b/Psa/49/11.html ], who was born unto Israel: howbeit the name of the city [was] Laish at the first.
Jdg 18:30 And the children of Dan set up the graven image: and Jonathan, the son of Gershom, the son of Manasseh, [now here it appears someone has changed the name of Manasseh from MOSES, THE Moses, a LEVITE. Hmmm, wonder why they would do that?] he and his sons were PRIESTS to the tribe of Dan until the day of the captivity of the land.
Jdg 18:31 And they set them up Micah's graven image, which he made, all the time that the house of God was in Shiloh.
http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Jdg/Jdg018.html
And we all know what happened to Shiloh:
Jer 7:12 — But go ye now unto my place which [was] in Shiloh, where I set my name at the first, and see what I did to it for the wickedness of my people Israel. http://www.blueletterbible.org/tsk_b/Jer/7/12.html
Now, I am running out of time, but you might want to look up the word 'abhor' in the concordance. I will give you a few entries:
Lev 26:11 And I will set my tabernacle among you: and my soul shall not abhor you.
Lev 26:15 And if ye shall despise my statutes, or if your soul abhor my judgments, so that ye will not do all my commandments, [but] that ye break my covenant:
Lev 26:30 And I will destroy your high places, and cut down your images, and cast your carcases upon the carcases of your idols, and my soul shall abhor you.
Deu 7:26 Neither shalt thou bring an abomination into thine house, lest thou be a cursed thing like it: [but] thou shalt utterly detest it, and thou shalt utterly abhor it; for it [is] a cursed thing.
Then see this:
Zec 11:8 Three shepherds also I cut off in one month; and my soul lothed them, and their soul also abhorred me. http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Zec/Zec011.html#8
Maybe, just maybe, God was talking about these folks, and maybe, just maybe, He didn't want His Holy name [Isa. 9:6] maligned by false shepherds.
Judges 18 is a very important chapter. It foreshadowed the downfall of the nation:
Mic 1:5 For the transgression of Jacob [is] all this, and for the sins of the house of Israel. What [is] the transgression of Jacob? [is it] not Samaria? and what [are] the high places of Judah? [are they] not Jerusalem? **** http://www.blueletterbible.org/tsk_b/Mic/1/5.html
Mic 1:6 Therefore I will make Samaria as an heap of the field, [and] as plantings of a vineyard: and I will pour down the stones thereof into the valley, and I will discover the foundations thereof.
Mic 1:7 And all the graven images thereof shall be beaten to pieces, and all the hires thereof shall be burned with the fire, and all the idols thereof will I lay desolate: for she gathered [it] of the hire of an harlot, and they shall return to the hire of an harlot.
Mic 1:8 Therefore I will wail and howl, I will go stripped and naked: I will make a wailing like the dragons, and mourning as the owls.
Mic 1:9 For her wound [is] incurable; for it is come unto Judah; he is come unto the gate of my people, [even] to Jerusalem.
Read it all: http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Mic/Mic001.html#5
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