Religious School Fires Theologian For "Open Theism"

Christianity Today ^ | 12/22/04 | Stan Guthrie

[Raycpa]

Only God can bring Glory, not sinners.

"For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;" (Romans 3:23)

Men get no credit for being saved. Only Jesus.

without a correct choice from a spiritually dead sin enslaved person the deal can not be completed and therefore Christ's atonement is not complete and adequate by itself. Beyond reason.

Please show me how a dead person can make a correct choice.

[rwfromkansas]

You are claiming things that are outside orthodox Christianity, Calvinist or not.

[Raycpa]

Perhaps if you could give me an example of a knowable truth, without a scripture quote, it would help me to understand.

When a hammer falls on your head, it hurts.

[Raycpa]

Election, as Scripture details, is completely God-caused.

I agree despite every being of my mind wanting to disagree.

[Raycpa]

Nearly all religions have a core belief that you should love your neighbor.

But do thay have a belief that we are basically evil and need God to redeem us in order to be able to love our neighbor ?

[PFC]

But do thay have a belief that we are basically evil and need God to redeem us in order to be able to love our neighbor ?

If believing that helps you love your neighbor, I would not want to change your beliefs.

[suzyjaruki]

Thank you for taking the time to explain your beliefs at least in summary. As my father-in-law says, "Someday we will know, won't we?" There is one absolute truth we can all agree on at FR, and that is, that we are going to die. What we believe, while we are still living, has relevance for that moment doesn't it?

[OneVike]

(Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.)

You say you believe in God, yet how can you believe in God if you do not believe his word.

For the Word IS God.

Either you believe or you do not, you cannot have it both ways. Which is it?

[Raycpa]

But do thay have a belief that we are basically evil and need God to redeem us in order to be able to love our neighbor ?

Do you believe that man is basically good ? If so, we should have elimated evil deeds long ago.

[PFC]

Thank you for taking the time to explain your beliefs at least in summary. As my father-in-law says, "Someday we will know, won't we?" There is one absolute truth we can all agree on at FR, and that is, that we are going to die. What we believe, while we are still living, has relevance for that moment doesn't it?

Yes it does because it pushes us to be more than we are.

[Raycpa]

Either you believe or you do not, you cannot have it both ways. Which is it?

Personally, I believed in God before I believed that scripture was written by God. It was only after studying it over time that I came to begin to appreciate all that it is. No other writings can compare.

[rwfromkansas]

It is tough stuff. It took me a long time to accept it because I did not like it either.

But, now that I have, I feel like I am finally free to let God be God and just be grateful he gives mercy to any of us.

[editor-surveyor]

"Is this biblical?"

Certainly not now, but with all of the "new translations" popping up all the time, who knows if God will even survive the next ten years?

[maestro]

.....Ephesians 1:11

[maestro]

......Ephesians 1:11 KJV

[PFC]

You say you believe in God, yet how can you believe in God if you do not believe his word.

For the Word IS God.

Either you believe or you do not, you cannot have it both ways. Which is it?

For many the Bible and God is inseperable. And many believe that the only way to God is through the Bible. I don't share that belief. I do believe the Bible that can bring people to God. But I believe it was written by men about God, not by God. As a work of man there will be errors.

[kidkosmic1]

"You are a heretic."

This is nonsense. God forbid that you would call me a "heretic" for quoting black and white KJV Scripture. I believe the Bible is the literal word of God and that Jesus Christ is the great I Am who came down from Heaven in the flesh to sacrifice His perfect, sinless life to save mankind from his wretched sins. God forbid that you'd say such a thing. Do ye worship at the alter of John Calvin or the Pope? How absurd.

[DannyTN]

"Why do you believe this?"

A number of reasons

• I grew up in a Christian family and in church and could see the difference in my family and in other church members compared to friends families that were not active in church. For that matter, I could see a difference in the happiness level of people in the church who really seemed to try to apply the concepts and those who were kind of marginal members.
• I started praying at a young age and have seen a lot of answered prayers. Sure, some of them can be passed off as coincidence, but they add up. The totality of the evidence is awesome. And some answered prayers just can't be passed off as circumstance.
• I started reading the Bible at a young age and came to realize that the standard the Bible holds up is the purest standard I've ever seen. That it's message is true and wise. That you can put it's concepts to test and see the effects.
• I also became familiar with the prophecies contained in the Bible and realized that the Bible has a phenomenal track record. The prophecies can be time dated prior to fulfillment and are often quite specific. Some such as the prophesies about the return of Israel and descriptions of the last days can be seen to be lining up with modern day events.
• What's more the Bible is kind of like a tapestry. You have this very clear logical thread. Moses being confirmed as a prophet by huge miracles before millions. Moses prophesying about future prophets and how to recognize them. Moses and the prophets all prophesying about Jesus, but in a way that it's kind of hard to put it all together until the picture is complete. But in addition everything else seems to come together despite having been written by so many different authors. It's like a intricate web in it's complexity.
• It makes sense. It is reasonable that God would hold up a perfect standard of love and judge us by His expectation rather than grade us on a Bell curve. It is reasonable that He would condemn us for our failures to love. It's not reasonable that He would pay the price for us, but then love isn't reasonable and in the context of "God is Love", then it's understandable.
• I have looked enough at other religions to realize they don't compare.
• Christianity has the power to change lives. From my Grandfather who was an alcholic before accepting Jesus and for about 9 months after that. To countless people who live happier fuller lives because they have embraced the Lord. To myself who at 42 continues to learn things about myself that don't measure up from studying the Bible and ways to become a better person.

  There's probably a lot of other reasons. But that's a pretty good start.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Ned Nickerson, I presume? 8~)