Posted on 01/03/2005 8:18:33 AM PST by kiriath_jearim
Open or Closed Case? Controversial theologian John Sanders on way out at Huntington. By Stan Guthrie | posted 12/22/2004
While John Sanders and the Board of Trustees at Huntington College in Indiana disagree on whether God exhaustively knows the future, they agree that his days as a theology professor at the evangelical school are running out. The issue, according to both Sanders and G. Blair Dowden, the college's president, is not Sanders' belief in open theology, but his notoriety in advocating the doctrine. Both acknowledged that others on the faculty hold the same open theology views.
"You can be an open theist," Sanders told CT. "You just can't be a well-known one. That makes this a very interesting case."
After an executive session of the board was held in October, Dowden told members of the faculty that there "was very little support for John's continued employment at Huntington." Neither Sanders nor Dowden expect him back for the 2005-2006 academic year, which begins next fall. Dowden told ct that while the controversy is "directly related" to open theism, there is no requirement for professors on the issue.
"Not at all," Dowden said. "We have some other faculty who are open theists, but they're not teaching theology or Bible. It's not a litmus test."
Sanders, who has taught at the school of about 1,000 students for seven years, has been a focus of controversy over open theism for the past four years, he said. In November 2003, Sanders narrowly avoided being expelled from the Evangelical Theological Society over his beliefs. Some society members believe open theology violates the society's commitment to scriptural inerrancy.
Huntington removed Sanders from the tenure track over the controversy, but school officials attempted to give him some financial security by signing him to three-year rolling contracts, automatically renewable annually, unless the administration or board says No. In the event Sanders were to be dismissed, he would receive payment for the balance of the contract.
Sanders told ct he expects to be relieved of his position shortly, and that Dowden has "made it clear that my contract will not be renewed after the 2004-5 academic year." Sanders said that he is looking into other teaching positions and research grants, but that he has no other options waiting in the wings right now.
Earlier reports in ct and the Chronicle of Higher Education that Sanders had been "fired" were inaccurate. Dowden, who called Sanders a "brilliant scholar" and "excellent teacher," has been a defender of Sanders.
"John has done everything we have asked of him," Dowden said. But Dowden said that the United Brethren in Christ, which sponsors the school, "finds open theism troubling—some [leaders find it] very troubling."
Dowden added that academic freedom, while important, is not absolute. "For all Christian colleges, academic freedom is bounded in some way."
Sanders said the school is not following its own guidelines. "I do believe that the right to publish and academic freedom statements that the professors actually are working under are being violated," Sanders said. "They are being trodden upon."
Some students at the school are upset. Joni Michaud, a senior history major who is a leader in a student group supporting Sanders, said the controversy is "a case study in academic freedom." The group meets weekly to discuss strategy, has sent letters supporting Sanders to the board, and is seeking to raise awareness among other students. Michaud said the treatment of Sanders violates the school's statements lauding the "benefits of controversy" in an academic setting.
"If Dr. Sanders is indeed fired, I will graduate with a much lowered opinion of the institution," said Michaud, a pre-law major. "I will probably not make any financial contribution, and I will discourage people from attending."
Such talk is no doubt troubling to administrators, who have announced a freeze in tuition rates for the 2005-2006 academic year. Huntington College, to be renamed Huntington University in mid-2005, says the annual U.S.News & World Report survey of colleges consistently ranks it as one of the top comprehensive colleges in the Midwest.
Dowden said the board will next meet January 19-23, and the fate of Sanders could be formally decided then.
[Stan Guthrie is senior associate news editor for Christianity Today]
I know that vacuous fuss-budgets are easily distracted, so here, let me fix it for you (but PLEASE don't take it as an invitation to "engage" - it's not):
You're proving my previous point. Who else, other than the stupid, show up unarmed to go into battle?. Hahahahaha
Now if the syntax / grammar doesn't meet your requirements this time, too bad. If you complain again, you will be ignored.
Your tag line says ?
How do we justify the actions of God in causing evil, suffering, and pain?
Did He?
Num 23:19 "God is not a man, that He should lie, Nor a son of man, that He should repent; Has He said, and will He not do it? Or has He spoken, and will He not make it good?
There is no wiggle room for interpretation. The scriptures clearly says God does not repent. To say He does is to ascribe man-made characteristics to Him, according to the scripture.
Yes, there are other places where God says, “I repent” such as:
Jer 26:3 'Perhaps they will listen and everyone will turn from his evil way, that I may repent of the calamity which I am planning to do to them because of the evil of their deeds.'
We find out later that Micah had already prophesied their destruction in the days of Hezekiah.
Jer 26:17-18 Then some of the elders of the land rose up and spoke to all the assembly of the people, saying, “Micah of Moresheth prophesied in the days of Hezekiah king of Judah; and he spoke to all the people of Judah, saying, 'Thus the LORD of hosts has said, "Zion will be plowed as a field, And Jerusalem will become ruins, And the mountain of the house as the high places of a forest."'
God knew they wouldn’t repent so God knew He wouldn't repent. Micah told them the people that they were not going to repent way before Jeremiah set foot into town. God was not surprised.
Then why are you here?
Open theism is pure blasphemy.
Would you say Job underwent suffering and pain? (hint-YES)
Who caused Job's suffering and pain? (hint-Satan)
Who allowed Satan to causes Job's suffering and pain? (hint-God)
What was the reason God allow it? (I'll leave this question to you.)
I do not reject anything the bible describes as truth, I'm sure the bible describes the truth with reference to many historical facts.
Perhaps if you could give me an example of a knowable truth, without a scripture quote, it would help me to understand.
How is it election when God looks at WHAT YOU DECIDE?
Isn't that assenting to your choice?
Election, as Scripture details, is completely God-caused.
Why? Because it is he who "began a good work in you..."
Because we are fallen sinners, and only God's work can lead to our salvation.
I think of Deism as self worship. Is there a difference? How do you know who your god is, unless you have created that god yourself?
No definitely not self-worship or a belief that there is no higher purpose to life. Nearly all religions have a core belief that you should love your neighbor. To treat them as you would want to be treated, etc. To help them when possible. I believe that is the most important part of living a Godly life.
Benjamin Franklin is a much better writer than I. Here is a link to something he wrote. . Letter to Stiles My beliefs are very similiar.
Laws are being re-written all the time...otherwise, we do not progress.
Instead of saying my statement is laughable, please explain how a belief is an absolute.
If you cannot answer a direct question, then at least admit it like the other fellow, and try to refrain from making belittling remarks.
Like I said, Harley, and like you confirmed with the scripture from Jeremiah, and I have demonstrated with the above scripture.....we cannot deny that the scripture says "it REPENTED the Lord."
The issue is how we interpret it.
You gave your interpretation in the last post. It's as good as any.
Especially since God already knew the outcome.
"God is not a man, that He should lie, Nor a son of man, that He should repent; Has He said, and will He not do it? Or has He spoken, and will He not make it good?"
Samuel says nearly the same thing in I Samuel 15:29:
"And also the Strength of Israel will not lie nor repent: for he is not a man, that he should repent."
Then, just a few verses later, verse 35, is says this:
"...and the LORD repented that he had made Saul king over Israel."
God does not SIN and need forgiveness for sins like a man--NO WAY! BUT, He does REGRET certain decisions He's made and decides to take A NEW COURSE OF ACTION. This is made so clear in I Samuel. If you can't accept the Word on this, what can I say?
"God knew they wouldn’t repent so God knew He wouldn't repent."
So, God goes around saying things He doesn't mean?
False.
There's a principle you need to take a look at:
Jeremiah 18
6 O house of Israel, cannot I do with you as this potter? saith the LORD. Behold, as the clay is in the potter's hand, so are ye in mine hand, O house of Israel.
7 At what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to pluck up, and to pull down, and to destroy it;
8 If that nation, against whom I have pronounced, turn from their evil, I will repent of the evil that I thought to do unto them.
9 And at what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to build and to plant it;
10 If it do evil in my sight, that it obey not my voice, then I will repent of the good, wherewith I said I would benefit them.
It might surprise some, but the United Brethren in Christ is America's first homegrown denomination and is also a forerunner of the United Methodist Church. The UB's were German speaking and were started by Martin Boehm (Mennonite) and William Otterbein (A Reformed.) They also have the distinction of having Milton Wright as one of their bishops....the father of Wilbur and Orville.
The UBs adopted the "methodist" discipline in their early years even though they did not unite with the methodists. They later split and one half of the split became the Evangelical United Brethren which did unite in 1969 with the Methodists to form the United Methodist Church.
"PS I don't know the answers to these questions but I have pondered them alot."
If you like to "ponder" things you may like to read some of Alvin Plantinga. He deals with the heavy stuff.
http://www.leaderu.com/truth/3truth02.html
You could also do a google on Ronald H. Nash - he's good, too.
You are not a clear thinker and it is impossilbe to have cogent interaction with you. I'm sorry.
"Then why are you here?" - connectthedots
You might want to consider changing your screen name.
See this as it also applies to you: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1312985/posts?page=218#218
I am unconvinced that the scripture points to God changing his mind as a human does.
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