Posted on 01/01/2005 7:13:21 AM PST by aculeus
Some threaten to resign over the proposed school.
A growing number of professors in the Florida State University College of Medicine are saying they will resign if FSU administrators continue to pursue a proposed chiropractic school.
"I would no longer wish to volunteer my teaching energies to FSU medical school, should it encompass a school of chiropractic," wrote Dr. Ian Rogers, an assistant professor at FSU's Pensacola campus, in a Dec. 15 e-mail. "This is plainly ludicrous!!!!"
The threatened resignations - at least seven to date, all from assistant professors who work part time - reflect a belief among many in the medical establishment that chiropractic is a "pseudo-science" that leads to unnecessary and sometimes harmful treatments. Professors are even circulating a parody map of campus that places a fictional Bigfoot Institute, School of Astrology and Crop Circle Simulation Laboratory near a future chiropractic school.
But the professors' stance has a political aim, too.
Opposition is clearly mounting as the chiropractic school heads for crucial votes in January before the FSU board of trustees and the state Board of Governors.
In fact, the school is now seen as a test case for the fledgling Board of Governors, which critics have accused of kowtowing to Gov. Jeb Bush and the Legislature on the higher education issues it is supposed to oversee.
FSU was closed for the holidays Tuesday. FSU president T.K. Wetherell, provost Larry Abele and John Thrasher, chairman of the FSU board of trustees, could not be reached for comment.
But Sen. Dennis Jones, the Treasure Island Republican who spearheaded legislative support for the school in the spring, said the professors were "overreacting."
He accused anti-chiropractic groups from outside the state of stirring faculty opposition at FSU.
"If they resign, so be it," said Jones, a chiropractor himself. The instructors don't deserve to teach at FSU, he said, "if they're putting their credentials with people known for promoting professional bigotry."
The Legislature appropriated $9-million annually for the chiropractic school, which was pushed by Jones and then-Senate President Jim King, R-Jacksonville, an FSU graduate. It would be the only school of its kind in the country.
As supporters envision it, more than 100 new faculty members would train legions of chiropractors, with a special emphasis on Hispanic and African-American students. The school would also draw lucrative federal grants in alternative medicine.
Planning began years ago, but criticism didn't ramp up until after the legislative session.
Some opponents see the school as an end run around the Board of Governors, which oversees the state's 11 universities but has yet to consider the chiropractic school. Last week, a group headed by former university system chancellor E.T. York filed a lawsuit against the board, accusing it of failing to flex its constitutionally granted muscle and pointing to the chiropractic school as a prime example.
But some FSU faculty members are upset, too, fearing the school will shatter FSU's academic reputation. The list of critics include FSU's two Nobel laureates - Robert Schreiffer, a physicist, and Harold Walter Kroto, a chemist - and Robert Holton, the chemistry professor who developed the cancer-fighting drug Taxol, which has brought FSU tens of millions of dollars in royalties.
In recent weeks, more than 500 faculty members have signed petitions against the chiropractic school, including about 70 in the medical college, said Dr. Raymond Bellamy, an assistant professor who is leading the charge against the proposal. The medical college has more than 100 faculty members.
Some of them say they're willing to do more than sign a petition.
"I teach wonderful medical students from Florida State University here in Orlando," Dr. James W. Louttit wrote in an e-mail to Bellamy, who shared it with the St. Petersburg Times. "If they decide to start a chiropractic school I would no longer be able to support this program."
"It should come as no surprise that no major medical institution in this country, public or private, has embraced chiropractic medicine," wrote Dr. Henry Ho, a Winter Park physician and FSU assistant professor, in another e-mail. "If Florida State University were to do so, its fledgling attempt for credibility as a medical institution of stature would be severely jeopardized."
The situation at FSU isn't the first time chiropractors have sought to tie themselves to an established university.
In the late 1990s, faculty at York University in Toronto - one of Canada's largest schools - considered plans to affiliate with Canadian Memorial Chiropractic College. The plan would have brought York millions of dollars in new facilities and donations and given the chiropractic school academic credibility.
After a bitter, years-long fight, York faculty narrowly vetoed the plan in 2001.
At FSU, faculty have not officially voiced their concerns about the chiropractic school. Bellamy said they fear retaliation from lawmakers if they do.
"Everybody wants somebody else to kill it," he said.
Ron Matus can be reached at 727 893-8873 or
matus@sptimes.com
© Copyright 2003 St. Petersburg Times. All rights reserved
You said: "Chiropractors do not get the same medical education as DO's or MD's!! However I think that chiropractors do a genuine service and belong at a university. It is more similar to physical therapy."
In essence, you are correct-- Chiro's don't get the SAME medical education. However, the chiropractic course of study, in many cases, is longer that for an average GP.
Chiros study is not longer than an average GP. Chiros only need 2 years of undergrad. MD's/DO's need 4 years of undergrad. To be a GP you need an additional 1 year of residency which averages around 70 hours a week in the hospital. GP's are no more!! hospitals wont hire them and insurance companys wont pay them. Too much of a liability. They prefer docs who have completed a 3 or 4 year residency.
BS Chiro schools are 3-4 years long and you only need 2 years of undergrad. Med school is 4 years of hell plus 3 or more years of 70-80 hours a week of residency in a hospital. I went to med school with 2 chiros. As med students they were well prepared for anatomy but for everything else ie. pharm, biochem,micro etc they were equal at best.
I am a chiroprator and I have read through the first 100, or so, posts. That's about all I could stomach.
I am also a political science enthusiast, with little time to explore that hobby except by lurking here at FR.
After reading the ignorance, half-truths and flat out lies about my profession, I need to re-assess what value lurking here on other issues is worth. The ignorance is palpable!
Not gonna address all the inaccuracies. No time right now, gotta prepare to teach Sunday school. (Oh no, he's a born again Christian too...)
Also I know: 'A mind convinced against its will is of the same opinion still'. So why bother? For some of you, it'd be like turning Jesse Jackson conservative. No amount of common sense evidence will convince him that conservatism is a sound position to have. And upon closer inspection, the favorable one as compared to liberalism.
I don't doubt there are bad chiro's out there. And if some of you know some who are bilking the system, do me and the rest of my ethical colleagues a favor and report them to the insurance commissioner in your state. I and my profession have no use for them.
But why does it always seem that when someone knows of a 'bad' chiropractor, then Chiropractic as a whole becomes 'bad' and the entire profession is one of charletans.
However, when an MD is 'bad', he's the quack, not the professsion??
There is no doubt in my mind, that when any reasonable person is educated as to why and how chiropractic works, that person will accept its premise. The only stipulation is your mind must be opened at least a little bit. They have no other choice. The theory is one of common sense. I see it on a daily basis in my office. Chiropractic works. Does it work for everything, of course not. Does medicine work for everything?
The problem chiro's face is similar to the way conservatives get painted in the MSM. Since we are not the mainstream view, those in positions of power paint us in a negative light in an effort to have the rest of society cast us aside as pariahs.
Part of the reason may be errored views and misunderstandings these individuals have about my professsion. These people may really believe, on some level, that they are doing a societal good by dissuading people from seeing a chiropracor. But the main reason is power and money. As chiropractic grows, and it will by the way, the old medical profession loses a bit more power, and a bit more money. Once again, as with most things, follow the power, follow the money.
Einstien: "The doctor of the future will give no medicine but will interest his patients in the care of the human frame, in diet and in the cause an prevention of disease."
Degree Requirements
These basic educational requirements for graduates of both chiropractic and
medical schools show that although each has its own specialties, the hours of
classroom instruction are about the same. (The class hours for basic science
comparisons were compiled and averaged following a review of curricula of 18
chiropractic colleges and 22 medical schools, based on the 1988-1989 Association
of American Medical College Curricula.)
Minimum Required Hours
Chiropractic College/Medical College
456.........Anatomy/Embryology............215
243................Physiology.....................174
296................Pathology.......................507
161................Chemistry.......................100
145................Microbiology...................145
408................Diagnosis.......................113
149................Neurology.......................171
271.................X-Ray.............................13
56.............Psychology/Psychiatry.........323
66.............Obstetrics & Gynecology......284
168.................Orthopedics.......................2
2,419......Total Hours for Degree.......2,047
I dont see MDs or DOs dissing chiro (from personal experience). I see the media dissing it. Chiros are an essential part of the health system. I would have no qualms about referring a patient to a chiro who has musculo-skeletal pain. I am also sure that you probably received a fairly good education in the basic sciences especially anatomy.
Is it unlimited? On my plan we're limited to 6 visits per year.
Your numbers of hours are a little off, I dont see pharmacology listed which depending on what med school is 1 or 2 semesters. I had biochem for 2hours a day for 16 weeks. Neurology, psych, OB/gyn, orthopedics are all electives in the clinical sciences. We went way beyond the minimum requirements. I was pretty much in class 35-40 hours a week.
Granted, also-- note the date-- 1988-89. Certainly not recent.
However, the point is, chiropractic education is about the same as med. school education in hours.
I also concur that the GP is a dinosaur, and everyone now specializes.
But that post is for the benefit of those on this thread who have no clue as to what Chiropractic school is comprised of.
However, when an MD is 'bad', he's the quack, not the professsion??
Actually both professions are shot through with corruption, although of quite different kinds. You might enjoy the contribution dated November 30, 2004 at the top of this page.
Einstien: "The doctor of the future will give no medicine but will interest his patients in the care of the human frame, in diet and in the cause an prevention of disease."
Oh, so you take your chiropractic straight? By the way, the quotation is from Thomas Edison. Einstein was from the next generation, by which time it did start to be clear that the doctor of the future would be giving some (and probably too much) medicine.
You don't know jaques schitt about my situation, yet are able to conclude that my seeking of help from a service provider, and seeing the problem immediately solved is an example of a post hoc fallacy?
The only way you can conclude that, I am afraid, is if you ass-u-me as a premise that a chiropractor can offer no useful help in any situation.
LOL!!! Right you are..!!!
So, corporations and markets aren't doing less than they should be expected to do.
Universities, however, are in the business of truth. It is already well known that the claims of many chiropractors (and of the practice of chiropracy itself) are contrary to what is observed (my 5 word phrase for "BS").
Therefore a school of chiropracty goes against the very mission of a university. A university is to faulted in way that corporations, some agencies, and consumers are not.
It is (I believe) "chiropractic" not "chiropracty." Beyond this, you are absolutely correct.
You have identified the precise reason that the hundreds of faculty members at FSU are in an uproar at this attack on intellectual honesty and truth. Chiropractic is opposed to the basic purpose of a University.
Chiropractic is a moderately successful business technique based on the (extremely powerful and very real) placebo effect. There is no scientific method or research in this enterprise.
Flat wrong. Chiropractors frequently make claims that are known to be demonstrably false. The very origins of chiropracty is based upon claims that are incompatible with what is now known. It is because of the falsehoods that chiropracty has no place in any institute of higher learning.
Physical therapy, on the other hand, has emerged as a science--i.e. dependent upon rational evaluation of observations. It clearly merits a place in any university.
Universities do not exist primarily to churn out people to perform services. They exist primarily for the advancement of knowledge. To admit chiropracty, a university would have to give up even the facade of that mission.
As a consumer you can feel free to receive services without regard to the validity of its practitioners' claims. A university should not be allowed that discretion.
Bingo.
I'll never forget seeing a young woman being transferred into the SICU when she lost all below-neck movement following a chriopractor's manipulation. To the chiropractor's credit, he's the one who called the ambulance. However, there are too many conditions which compromise vertebral integrity that chiropractors are not qualified or equipped to diagnose. Chirpractors' heavy-handed manipulations can be devastating in such situations.
I know today that there are many primary care physicians who refer patients to chiropractors. I only hope those physicians first provide an appropriate diagnostic workup and screening of chiropractors.
I'll never forget seeing a young woman being transferred into the SICU when she lost all below-neck movement following a chriopractor's manipulation. To the chiropractor's credit, he's the one who called the ambulance. However, there are too many conditions which compromise vertebral integrity that chiropractors are not qualified or equipped to diagnose. Chirpractors' heavy-handed manipulations can be devastating in such situations.
I know today that there are many primary care physicians who refer patients to chiropractors. I only hope those physicians first provide an appropriate diagnostic workup and screening of chiropractors.
Except for the false claims of its practitioners.
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