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To: Pyro7480

From time to time it is reported Ratzinger is on the side of tradition. If this is true, he is not to be trusted.

IF canonizations are infallible (and it's disputable), then the sedevacantists scored another point in their argument.

If the See is not vacant, then by virtue of elimination of the position of devil's advocate, the process has been altered and can no longer validate saints with any assistance of the Holy Spirit.


55 posted on 12/20/2004 9:56:22 PM PST by Canticle_of_Deborah
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To: Canticle_of_Deborah
If the See is not vacant, then by virtue of elimination of the position of devil's advocate, the process has been altered and can no longer validate saints with any assistance of the Holy Spirit.

Even so, there's at least two saints that were canonized post-Vatican II that I KNOW are saints interceding for us in heaven: St. Maximilian Kolbe, and St. Charbel Maklouf.

59 posted on 12/20/2004 10:03:53 PM PST by Pyro7480 (Sub tuum praesidium confugimus, sancta Dei Genitrix.... sed a periculis cunctis libera nos semper...)
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To: Canticle_of_Deborah
by virtue of elimination of the position of devil's advocate, the process has been altered and can no longer validate saints with any assistance of the Holy Spirit

You can provide traditional citations for this, right? Odd, but I thought that the Sovereign Pontiff didn't require the assistance of other persons to issue infallible definitions. Perhaps the "Spirit of vatican II" got rid of the traditional doctrine:

Nevertheless, some of the most reverend fathers, not content with these conditions, go farther and even want to put into this constitution conditions which are found in different ways in different theological treatises and which concern the good faith and diligence of the Pontiff in searching out and enunciating the truth. However, these things, since they concern the conscience of the Pontiff rather than his relation [to the Church], must be considered as touching on the moral order rather than the dogmatic order. For with great care our Lord Jesus Christ willed that the charism of truth depend not on the conscience of the Pontiff, which is private - even most private - to each person, and known to God alone, but rather on the public relation of the Pontiff to the universal Church. If it were otherwise, this gift of infallibility would not be an effective means for preserving and repairing the unity of the Church. But in no way, therefore, should it be feared that the universal Church could be led into error about faith through the bad faith and negligence of the Pontiff. For the protection of Christ and the divine assistance promised to the successors of Peter is a cause so efficacious that the judgment of the supreme Pontiff would be impeded if it were to be erroneous and destructive of the Church; or, if in fact the Pontiff really arrives at a definition, it will truly stand infallibly. (Bishop Vincent Gasser, Relatio on the fourth chapter of the Schema Pastor Aeternus at the First Vatican Council)

60 posted on 12/20/2004 10:04:44 PM PST by gbcdoj ("I acknowledge everyone who is united with the See of Peter" - St. Jerome)
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To: Canticle_of_Deborah
It isn't sede. If it happens, it will look something like this:

"We hereby suggest, recommend and imply that St. Goodintent is saint and we associate him among the saints, encouraging him to be recognized by the whole Church as for outstanding achievement."

No need to worry.

62 posted on 12/20/2004 10:07:35 PM PST by pascendi (Quicumque vult salvus esse, ante omnia opus est, ut teneat catholicam fidem)
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