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Okla. Gays Struggle to Remain Optimistic
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/R/RED_STATE_GAYS?SITE=SCCOL&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT ^

Posted on 12/19/2004 6:20:25 PM PST by Ellesu

TULSA, Okla. (AP) -- Far from the coastal strongholds of the same-sex marriage movement, gays in the red states of the Bible Belt are struggling to maintain confidence and optimism in the aftermath of an election that many viewed as a stinging personal rebuff.

In Oklahoma, the 76 percent support for a constitutional ban on gay marriage has prompted some gays to leave the state or consider leaving. The staff of Tulsa's community center for gays and lesbians say calls to the center's help line, some of them suicidal, have tripled since the election.

In many cases, however, the dismay is accompanied by renewed determination.

"Some people talk about leaving, but there's a larger group more invested in fighting than they were before," said Mark Bonney, a gay activist who heads Tulsa Oklahomans for Human Rights. "They're saying it's time to come out to their families, to draw a line in the sand."

The resilience is evident in the launch of a $1 million fund-raising campaign for a new gay community center, in a court challenge of a new state law opposing adoptions by same-sex couples, and in the decision of two lesbian couples to file a lawsuit against the state and federal laws that deny recognition to same-sex unions.

"Tulsa is our home, and we have a strong community of family and friends," said Sue Barton, one of the plaintiffs. "Why would we pack up and leave just because we're treated unequally? We'd rather work toward being treated equally here."

Oklahoma was among 11 states that passed gay-marriage bans on Nov. 2. Only Mississippi's amendment won a higher portion of votes - 86 percent.

"We couldn't get married before, so it didn't create any larger legal hurdle," Bonney said. "But it's got to hurt, when you know that three out of four of your neighbors don't want you around. It was a statement of hate."

The author of Oklahoma's gay-marriage ban, Republican state Sen. James Williamson of Tulsa, insists hate was not a factor, but he shares the view of many in this churchgoing state that homosexuality is a sinful lifestyle choice.

"As a Christian, I don't like that behavior," Williamson said. "If they want to live their life quietly, in the privacy of their homes, that's freedom in America. But when you want to force the rest of us to accept a new definition of marriage, we're not going to stand for that."

Except for one small town, no Oklahoma municipality has joined the hundreds of cities and towns nationwide that have expanded anti-discrimination laws to cover sexual orientation.

"We'll never go there," Williamson said. "If a Christian couple here in Oklahoma doesn't want to rent property to openly in-your-face homosexuals, they should have a right to do that."

Oklahomans voted overwhelmingly Republican - red on the campaign map - in the presidential race, and also gave the GOP control of the state House for the first time in more than 80 years, increasing the likelihood of socially conservative legislation.

Tom Neal, an aspiring architect and publisher of a now-defunct monthly gay newspaper, said fears of growing intolerance have prompted him and several friends to consider moving to Canada.

Two of his friends, partners for 24 years, plan to wed next month in British Columbia, and Neal said he would join them in surveying real estate there. He's descended from Oklahoma Land Rush settlers, but Neal says that "after this election, I'm literally feeling a lot less safe."

Atlanta native Laura Belmonte says she has established a comfortable life as a history professor at Oklahoma State University in Stillwater, where she lives with her lesbian partner and sometimes advises gay students.

"Some Oklahomans make this blatant assumption about sameness - that you're straight, you're an evangelical, you're conservative," she said. "If you challenge any component of that, some people just write you off."

To an extent, national gay-rights groups also wrote off Oklahoma's gay community - offering only token assistance for the longshot campaign against the marriage ban.

Bonney said he understood the pragmatism behind such decisions, although he noted that Tulsa gays have been organized and active for 20 years. Far from demanding marriage rights, many gays and lesbians in Oklahoma are still wrestling with whether to come out to family and associates, he said.

"You can't have marriage until you've gained enough self-acceptance to demand respect from your neighbors," he said. "That's still an ongoing process here."

The four women filing the lawsuit against state and federal marriage laws hope their effort will inspire boldness among others in the local gay community. They shrug off criticism from several national gay-rights groups who say their lawsuit is so certain to fail that it will be counterproductive.

"We may not prevail, but to run a marathon you have to start taking steps," said Sharon Baldwin, who - like partner Mary Bishop - is an editor at the Tulsa World. "We can't sit back and do nothing."

Baldwin and Bishop, who were heartened by their newspaper colleagues' support, say they have no interest in leaving Oklahoma. Sue Barton said she and her partner did contemplate moving to Chicago or the East Coast after getting a civil union in Vermont in 2001, but now they also intend to stay.

"We have to live smart and careful," she said. "But we don't walk around in fear."

On Dec. 13, about 125 Tulsa gays and their families gathered at a Congregational church for a holiday potluck dinner, trying to shake off the postelection blues with turkey and pie, songs by a gay-lesbian chorus, and a ceremony honoring some of their supporters.

"Each of us is unique," said one of the honorees, Rabbi Charles Sherman. "Those who'd have us fit into some neat category that makes them comfortable - they're wrong. That's not what God wants."


TOPICS: News/Current Events; US: Oklahoma
KEYWORDS: barf; homosexualagenda; oklahoma; queers; samesexmarriage
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To: HostileTerritory

I moved to OKC from San Diego, which does have a lot of homosexuals. I couldn't get over how much more noticible they are here. It might be just because I didn't expect to see so many of them in the middle of a red state.

Either way, I don't care if they're queer or not, just don't try forcing me to think like they do.


21 posted on 12/19/2004 7:07:51 PM PST by digitalbrownshirt
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To: Ellesu

"some are contemplating moving to Chicago or the east coast"

Please not Chicago!! I was in Chicago last weekend and my "gaydar" was constantly beeping!!

enough already!!


22 posted on 12/19/2004 7:08:19 PM PST by JRochelle
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To: Ellesu

So far we are holding our own, which is more than I can say for the people in Massachusetts. I guess we aren't as refined as some of these people.


http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1303444/posts


23 posted on 12/19/2004 7:11:19 PM PST by JustAnotherOkie
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To: loboinok

>>Anyone else thinking "drama queens"?

Actually, "Oklahoma" is a musical :)

"I'm Just A Gay Who Just Cain't Say No"

"It's a Scandal! It's an Outrage!"

"People Will Say We're In Love" (and should marry, though we're both men)


24 posted on 12/19/2004 7:17:45 PM PST by raccoonradio (Boston: Home of the $15 billion car wash (Big Dig Tunnel).)
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To: Ellesu

I would wager it's hard to be optimistic with a d*ck up your @ss...


25 posted on 12/19/2004 7:31:39 PM PST by thoughtomator (Nobody expects the secular inquisition!)
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To: Ellesu

Wouldn't it just be easier for them to move to San Francisco or Vermont?


26 posted on 12/19/2004 7:45:15 PM PST by Paleo Conservative (Hey! Hey! Ho! Ho! Dan Rather's got to go!)
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To: Ellesu

"We'll never go there," Williamson said. "If a Christian couple here in Oklahoma doesn't want to rent property to openly in-your-face homosexuals, they should have a right to do that."

And, in all fairness, a gay property owner should have the right to refuse to rent to an openly-Christian couple.

Of course that is not what they envision.

Intellectual Honesty, where is thy sting!


27 posted on 12/19/2004 7:47:14 PM PST by torchthemummy ("Terrorism has less to do with economic poverty than with political poverty." - Jane Novak)
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To: torchthemummy

The funny part is that denying the Christian couple would be a violation of their civil rights. You can't deny them because of religion.

Having a lust for manlove isn't a protected status on the other hand.


28 posted on 12/19/2004 8:04:06 PM PST by digitalbrownshirt
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To: thoughtomator

duck? That doesn't fit.

OH OH I GET IT. HEH HEH


29 posted on 12/19/2004 8:16:18 PM PST by JRochelle
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To: torchthemummy

That would qualify as discrimination based on religion, unlawful, I think.

Now if they were FLAMING HETROSEXUALS, well that might be different:)


30 posted on 12/19/2004 8:20:04 PM PST by JRochelle
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To: bannie
I agree with you.

I doubt that 1 in 10 Okies give a damn about whether someone is gay as long as they keep to themselves.

The trouble starts when they want to be singled out for special treatment.

Seems to me they want to flaunt and cram their life style down those who do not care for it.
31 posted on 12/19/2004 8:21:48 PM PST by OKIEDOC (LL THE)
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To: Ellesu; All
"Why would we pack up and leave just because we're treated unequally?

I always hear this arguement and I just dont get it. Someone please explain to me how gays are treated unequally.

Do gays get fired or refused from jobs because they are gay? Are they denied service?

How would I be able to tell if a person is gay to refuse them service anyway? I just don't understand.

32 posted on 12/19/2004 8:25:18 PM PST by expatguy ("Fallujah Delenda Est!")
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To: OKIEDOC

"CRAM THIER LIFESTYLE DOWN"?

Ewwwew, That can mean many things.


33 posted on 12/19/2004 8:27:15 PM PST by JRochelle
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To: Ellesu
"You can't have marriage until you've gained enough self-acceptance to demand respect from your neighbors," he said. "That's still an ongoing process here."

I guess this was a quote from Mark Bonney the gay activist.

Now, someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I haven't been hit by Alzheimers yet (some may disagree LOL) and it seems to me that in my formative years, Dad and Mom impressed on me the fact that respect is earned and not something to be demanded.

I mean, it seems like a fantasy world scenario to me: the guy moves next door to someone, goes and knocks on their door and says, "Hi, I'm your new neighbor. I'm gay and I'm really comfortable with that; I have a high degree of self-acceptance with my lifestyle. Now, I DEMAND YOUR RESPECT!" Someone did that to me and I'd keep a very close eye on 'em ...

34 posted on 12/19/2004 8:33:32 PM PST by Boomer Geezer (Sgt. Wanda Dabbs, 22, of the 230th, called out, "That's my president, hooah!" and there were cheers.)
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To: Ellesu
The resilience is evident in the launch of a $1 million fund-raising campaign for a new gay community center They have a lot of these in San Francisco. They call them Bath Houses or Tea Rooms.
35 posted on 12/19/2004 8:53:48 PM PST by TASMANIANRED (Free the Fallujah one)
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To: Ellesu
Gosh. There sure is a lot of "suffering" among homosexuals these days.

You don't suppose Ralph Lauren is all out of lime green pullovers, do you?

36 posted on 12/20/2004 2:46:29 AM PST by Reactionary
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To: Boomer Geezer
"Now, I DEMAND YOUR RESPECT!" Someone did that to me and I'd keep a very close eye on 'em ..."

Demanding respect is one strategy, and the other dim strategy of using the courts to achieve what they can't achieve through vote is another futile attempt.

They can write all the tolerance laws they want to, but thats not going to make me more accepting of their disgusting lifestyle.

37 posted on 12/20/2004 3:33:49 AM PST by libs_kma (USA: The land of the Free....Because of the Brave!)
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To: PhiKapMom

That is just it, the Majority have spoken in more than on are and on more than one occasion, we do not want this and we will not accept this. So now they are trying to come in by the back door, which is the schools.

They are going to convience our children that Homosexuality is a normal thing and is not a sickness, is not wrong, is acceptable, God does not exist or is just irrelevent. We cannot allow this to continue. We must stop this and turn it around.

The Democratic Party , by affiliation with this group has numbered there own days. The may change their Label to Progressive or what ever they like, it's the same agenda.

We must place a tremendous pressure on the Congress and the President, to roll back these Freedom of Speech supressing so called HATE Crime Laws and other Socialist legislation that allows this alternative lifesyle to flourish. We ahve to much to lose, OUR CHILDREN, OUR RELIGIOPNS and OUR COUNTRY.

Some Articles you should find Interesting:

http://waysandmeans.house.gov/hearings.asp?formmode=view&id=954

This is a good one also:


Why Christians and the Church are unable to fight the culture war
Restore America - http://www.noDNC.com ^ | October 23, 2004
Posted on 10/23/2004 1:15:13 AM EDT by woodb01
Why Christians and the Church are unable to fight the culture war
although it's still not too late
October 23, 2004
http://www.nodnc.com

Often, in and out of church walls today, we hear about the apathy of the religious community. Hardly a month goes by that the church is not embroiled in some major controversy to the glee of the anti-christian left. The Church in America has lost its soul. The American church no longer fears God, and no longer loves God.

If this sounds like harsh criticism, I intend to fully support it in just a moment.

First, a little background. Since as far back as I can remember, I was raised in a Baptist Church, in my late teen years, after considerable rebellion, I had an "awakening" to what is meant by being "born again" after getting involved in the Pentecostal / Charismatic movement. Not the typical emotional "born again" experience that many people go through, but a true, life-changing, life-altering event that only an encounter with a living God could have initiated. This event led me to pour over the pages of the Bible for over 20 years, reading it cover to cover many times.

In a direct parallel to the church and our out of control culture today, I was on a roller coaster ride. On the wagon, off the wagon, running after God, running away from God, believing in a Heavenly Father and then having my doubts. Compromise, tolerance, foolishness, and sin were regular occurrences in my life, just like the American Church and American Culture today.

Then one day reading my Bible I stumbled on this:
Proverbs 8:13 The fear of the LORD is to hate evil...
That unnerved me because I didn't HATE evil. I was "tolerant," I was accepting just like all good little secular humanist citizens should be. I knew there was something wrong because if I didn't fear God, then how could I profess to truly be a Christian? Then other verses struck me:
Psalms 97:10 You that love the LORD, hate evil...
Romans 12:9 ...Abhor that which is evil; cleave to that which is good.
Confronted with this harsh reality that I did not HATE evil and therefore did not love or fear God, I was forced to change. My realization forced me to concede that I was headed straight for hell--, just like today's American Culture, and frighteningly enough, the American Church.

HATE, is a passionate thing. HATE is an active thing. You can't be apathetic if you have that passion. Activism and involvement against the causes of evil are the obvious results. Am I advocating violence? NO! Absolutely not! What I am advocating is serious, sincere, and committed activism to confronting and changing the sick and twisted evil in this culture today.

For example, as prayer was taken out of the schools, and abortion became the judge made "law of the land," every pastor and Christian in this country should have been running for Congress for the sole purpose of impeaching the Supreme Court Justices. It should have been the American Church's passion to stop the evils of the anti-christian assaults of American religious tradition and to stop the butcher of innocent human life. But there was nothing.
Today, with the controversy surrounding gay marriage, it hasn't been the Protestant faiths leading the fight, but the Catholic church, family groups, father's groups, and the Republican Party. The American Church's protestants are eerily silent.

Recently the democrats in Congress attempted to pass new "hate crimes" legislation identical to Canada's. In Canada, it is a hate crime to preach against homosexuality, even if you take it directly from the Bible. Yet still the church and christians do nothing.

The church, the family, values, morals, ethics, our children and our country are under attack. A relentless assault is being waged on patriotism and America from treasonous traitors within and still the American Church stands idly by as a spectator. It's time for American Christians to find their passion and their souls. DEMAND that your pastor abide by the Bible and teach what the Bible says about hating evil and if that pastor refuses, that pastor does NOT fear the Lord, and does NOT love God! That pastor must be removed from that position. It's time for the American Church to clean house and once cleaned to stand face to face with the vile anti-christian beast that has arisen in American government and lop the 7 headed hydra's heads off!


38 posted on 12/20/2004 3:36:28 AM PST by 26lemoncharlie (Defending America)
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To: 26lemoncharlie
They think everybody hates them, not really maybe some, but we TOLERATE them, until they start pushing it on us and try making us agreeing to something we are not going to agree to.

We ahve TOLERATED their lifestyle and now they are trying to push it on us, and our children. we are not going to allow it. Were are the MAJORITY we have set the STANDARD and we will not deviate any farther.

Now you know haow youre neighbors feel, don't push it! You will get a fight.


Damn right! They need to realize that the MAJORITY is what's in charge! And the MAJORITY is always right, like when they vote for gun control laws.

Oh. Wait.

Maybe you want to rethink your position on this "raw democracy" you're endorsing? I thought the U.S. Constitution, and things like the Freedom of Religion clause, were all about protecting minorities from the tyranny of the majority.

Remember that someday you might be the sheep voting with the wolves on what to have for dinner...
39 posted on 04/24/2005 10:35:51 AM PDT by perlhacker
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To: perlhacker



Looking for 'special rights'? Only reason to resurrect a thread this old on your first day: Trolling.


40 posted on 04/24/2005 10:40:13 AM PDT by xone
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