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Police angry over rifle delay
The Birmingham News ^ | Saturday, December 18, 2004 | CAROL ROBINSON

Posted on 12/19/2004 7:30:58 AM PST by God defeats Darwin

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Don't have time to really post on this right now, but looks like a gun's just "a tool in the toolbox" if you're a cop. Forget about how it's a murder inducing weapon in the hands of a law-abiding citizen.
1 posted on 12/19/2004 7:30:59 AM PST by God defeats Darwin
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To: God defeats Darwin

The Mayor of Birmingham is an idiot.


2 posted on 12/19/2004 7:38:25 AM PST by Conspiracy Guy (Boycott Boycotts Warrior. If you aint buying call me!)
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To: God defeats Darwin
Note that the term "assault weapon" doesn't occur in this article.

The desire almost reached fever pitch in June when officers Harley Chisolm, Rob Bennett and Carlos Owen - all armed with handguns - were shot to death with a semi-automatic SKS rifle.

Those dang SKS rifles, up and shooting cops all by themselves, again.

3 posted on 12/19/2004 7:38:38 AM PST by coloradan (Hence, etc.)
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To: God defeats Darwin
"Every police officer should have access to a rifle for those situations where we're outgunned."

And so should citizens.

4 posted on 12/19/2004 7:39:07 AM PST by Clovis_Skeptic
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To: God defeats Darwin

--aside from the rifle "issue" , a mayor with a brain would be in order---


5 posted on 12/19/2004 7:40:36 AM PST by rellimpank
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To: Clovis_Skeptic
"Every police officer should have access to a rifle for those situations where we're outgunned."

And so should citizens.

In Texas we do. :)

6 posted on 12/19/2004 7:43:40 AM PST by Centurion2000 (Truth, Justice and the Texan Way)
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To: God defeats Darwin

I think it was either Boxer or Feinstein who said these types of weapons have only one purpose- to kill a lot of people.

So by saying the police need these readily available, are they saying the police need to be able to kill lots of people at a moments notice?


7 posted on 12/19/2004 7:45:25 AM PST by treadstone71
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To: God defeats Darwin

They don't need a rifle they actually need a Bradley Fighting Vehicle. Anyone who has ever been to most parts of Birmingham would only feel safe with a .50 caliber machine gun. And yes the mayor is an idiot.


8 posted on 12/19/2004 7:48:16 AM PST by Quigley
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To: Eaker; humblegunner; thackney; Travis McGee

"Each officer who chooses to carry a rifle would first have to complete the necessary training and qualification program."




Kinda sad...All I had to do is go buy mine...

Don't really know how to feel about this story...

So they "need" AR-15's to do their jobs??? And the upper eschelon leadership types are dragging their heals on getting that implemented???

Thats horrible!!! I doubt that that impact will allow them to realize what we (law-abiding citizens) have to deal with when we choose to exercise and empower ourselves in the same way...

Maybe I am just feeling too much like an arse about it all...

Later,
Steve


9 posted on 12/19/2004 7:50:04 AM PST by stevie_d_64 (Houston Area Texans)
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To: Quigley
Anyone who has ever been to most parts of Birmingham would only feel safe with a .50 caliber machine gun.

Uh are you insinuating that it's the 'citizens' of Birmingham that are dangerous? If you are, how dare you, those are VOTERS you're talking about. /sarcasm

Ok seriously, doesn't BPD have 12ga Remingtons in their squad cars? If not, that IS ridiculous.

10 posted on 12/19/2004 7:56:01 AM PST by Condor51 (May God have mercy upon my enemies, because I won't. - Gen G Patton)
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To: God defeats Darwin
.....be allowed to carry a Colt AR-15 M-4 Carbine, a Bushmaster XM-15 A-2 Carbine or a Ruger Mini-14 Ranch Rifle...

But,.....but.......
Aren't those among the dangerous and deadly assault rifles we need to get off the streets?
(Where's the term "assault rifles" in this article, by the way?)

11 posted on 12/19/2004 7:57:50 AM PST by Fiddlstix (This Tagline for sale. (Presented by TagLines R US))
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To: God defeats Darwin
I think many police departments have become too militarized, but that adding a rifle or carbne to every officer's equipment load-out as he goes on duty is a reasonable, and smart thing to do. Once done, their department leaders need to emphasize ACCURACY over firepower, and institute the necessary training program to ensure their street cops are ready for any incident.

I also agree with you that if a firearm of this type is considered a "tool" for cops, it should also be considered as such for all law-abiding citizens. THAT also needs to be kept in mind by politicians that will no doubt whine and bleat the next time a criminal or crazy goes on a shooting rampage with one of these type of weapons.

If they aren't going to try and take these "tools" away from police that are "outgunned", even after such an unfortunate and horrible incident, then they need to forget trying to take them away from us.

Wishful thinking, I know. Whatever happens, I'm willing to give my guns up ONLY if they are willing to accept them LEAD FIRST.

12 posted on 12/19/2004 8:00:47 AM PST by DocH (Release ALL your Navy records AND your private journal Kerry!)
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To: Centurion2000; Clovis_Skeptic

Here in Penna we do, too. I carry an Armalite (.308cal) AR-10 w/ 10 20-round mags and Leupold glass, in the rear of my Jeep Grand Cherokee. And a Kimber 'Eclipse Target II' 1911A1 .45cal ACP, on my hip.


13 posted on 12/19/2004 8:05:01 AM PST by 7.62 x 51mm (• veni • vidi • vino • visa • "I came, I saw, I drank wine, I shopped")
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To: God defeats Darwin
A coroner's report showed Griggs was shot 24 times.

If it took 24 hits (presumably with a 9mm) to stop this guy, I seriously doubt the .223 Remington is the "magic bullet" they seem to be looking for. Personally, I think they'd be better off with the M1 .30 Carbine over the AR-15/.223.

Benjamin Griggs, 58, a mentally ill Vietnam War veteran who held police at bay for two hours...three colleagues were killed with rifle bullets that pierced their armored vests

Arming officers with a .223 won't change the fact that Kevlar soft body armor will not stop a centerfire rifle round.

14 posted on 12/19/2004 8:07:42 AM PST by holymoly (Merry Christmas! http://tinyurl.com/5mxvw)
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To: God defeats Darwin
Ok , I'm series.

Screw the AR-15.
Get a REAL rifle, an M-14. That'll take out any bad guy with an SKS.

It's that physics thingy, F=ma
In English, .308 beats .223 OR the SKS 7.62x39 (however personally I'd rather have the 7.62x39 than a wimpy .223)

Please no Flaming, I just don't like 'little' bullets or the concept behind the M-16 as a main battle rifle, i.e.; wound one enemy and then you take three people out of the fight. That concept only works when your enemy isn't a member of a death cult.

15 posted on 12/19/2004 8:10:21 AM PST by Condor51 (May God have mercy upon my enemies, because I won't. - Gen G Patton)
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To: holymoly
I didn't see your post before I did mine.

All I can say is ditto. The .223 surely AIN'T the magic 'fix-all' rifle round for cops.

And please don't mention the Kevlar/rifle bullet matter. Ted Kennedy will read it and go on another BAN ALL RIFLE ammo cr@p again. (joking)

16 posted on 12/19/2004 8:17:09 AM PST by Condor51 (May God have mercy upon my enemies, because I won't. - Gen G Patton)
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To: 7.62 x 51mm
Nice weapons.

I've got a Kimber Tactical Custom II .45 and think it is a great pistol. I'm also considering buying an Armalite .308. I don't like Bushmaster's use of FAL mags, and I don't like the bolt release they use. How do you like the Armalite?

Too bad they gave you a crappy Jeep Grand Cherokee with the bulging, below the bumper, exploding gas tank. Then again, hasn't the Ford Crown Vic been noted as having an exploding gas tank of its own?

Those are a couple of good reasons to drive a Chevy truck like I've got.

By the way officer, thanks for your service. I went to high school in Pittsburgh, and my sister still lives there. I'm a former Marine, who like many Marines, has either become, or thought about becoming a police officer. I'm in the second category, but I do appreciate what you guys do every day.

Merry Christmas.

17 posted on 12/19/2004 8:21:05 AM PST by DocH (Release ALL your Navy records AND your private journal Kerry!)
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To: God defeats Darwin
"Here we were out there looking for these guys," Treadaway said of the first responders, "and we were carrying handguns."

The police in Bagdad had the same complaint, but I hesitate to compare the two.

18 posted on 12/19/2004 8:23:48 AM PST by Cold Heat (What are fears but voices awry?Whispering harm where harm is not and deluding the unwary. Wordsworth)
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To: God defeats Darwin

the AR-15's are in stock. . they just cannot issue them until the same number of black balaclavas are available . . .

/sarcasm


19 posted on 12/19/2004 8:23:48 AM PST by stompk
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To: Condor51

I agree that the 7.62 is a much better round, but most types of .308 AR-type weapons will outshoot a comparably sized (short-barreled) M1-A/M-14 anyday, AND, since many cops are former military and already trained with an M-16, it just makes sense to equip them with what they already know. The AR weapons are easier to handle (ergonomically speaking) also. The modular nature of the AR family also allows much more customization, and/or fitting-out for different missions. The AR is also much easier for individuals, other than an armorer, to repair. The M1-A/M-14 weapons are good weapons, but an AR in the same caliber is much better, in my opinion.


20 posted on 12/19/2004 8:30:51 AM PST by DocH (Release ALL your Navy records AND your private journal Kerry!)
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