Posted on 12/17/2004 3:57:13 PM PST by yonif
"Do you have proof for the assertion that Islam is the cause of nearly all world violence?"
Can you name me a country where Muslims have been able to live under a non-Muslim government, once they became a sizable minority? Also, can you name me a Muslim country where there is any respect at all for people who are not Muslim.
Me, too. They can call pretty much anything they like a "restriction of civil liberties", such as profiling Middle Eastern men at the airport, or automatically deporting illegal aliens from Terrorist sponsoring nations.
Simply point out to them that there's a part of the world where Islam is dominant, and there's another part of the world where Islam is not dominant. If they want to be Moslems, go to those places. Otherwise, until they are sufficiently assimilated they have to attend Lutheran services at 7:30 AM and Catholic services at 9:00 AM on Sundays, and try to find a Baptist or other Protestant service for Wednesday evenings. Else they can just go home!
So the entire religion has become accountable to you? I wasn't aware of that. I don't mean to be rude, if but most Mulsims are not terrorists, then why should they subject themselves to violations of the liberties that they are free to enjoy in the West in order to weed out the minority? I mean, how would you pitch that to them?
This vocal minority that you mention is thought to be about 10% of the entire moslem population. (Though some place that figure even higher, let's stick with this conservative number.)
IOW, just 10% of the moslems in the US puts that number at about 300,000.
So in the US we have 300,000 people whose goal is jihad.
This "vocal minority" aims to cause major trouble if we let down our guard for a moment. And their numbers are quite large enough to cause that holy confrontation.
We in the US really ought to demand for a start, all sermons in the mosques now be delivered in English.
The Germans have started to demand German language sermons in their mosques.
We have to know what is being said.
Actually, that's not quite right. They got out of the competent war making business then. That's not to say their penchant for lethal brawling abated in the slightest.
There's really no problem in finding out what's said in the mosques. The Imams here find it necessary to communicate with the young people, and they use English.
In any case, that's not where the problem comes from ~ the real issue is the Koran itself, and the Hadiths.
So all sermons in US mosques are in English?
I didn't know that.
Well, your questions are not proof of your assertion, but ok, I'll answer them.
Can you name me a country where Muslims have been able to live under a non-Muslim government, once they became a sizable minority? I can name two, Indonesia, which has the largest Muslim population in the world. While there has been some violence, there is not threat of an Islamic government in the country. Second, Turkey, which also has a secular government which is not likely to give way to Islamism. For your second question: can you name me a Muslim country where there is any respect at all for people who are not Muslim. I'm not sure of your definition of Muslim country. Do you mean Muslim regime, or a country in which there is a majority of Muslims? And respect from whom? Many Muslims in Irans love Americans, including non-Muslim Americans, but their regime does not. Non-Muslims are well recieved by the regimes of Jordan, the UAE, and Kuwait, although there is a large percentage of the populace of those countries that do not take well to non-Muslims. There are also of course, Turkey and Indonesia. Why do you ask?
Goodwill borne of patriotism!
I would bet you are correct. (And I rarely bet.)
They have as much right as Nazis who want to practice their beliefs --- but they need to be watched very carefully --- and their book is as much hate speech as anything else could be and should be restricted as such --- it actually calls for the slaughter of all Christians and Jews. If a book called for the slaughter of other groups, it would be considered a hate book. And as far as immigration --- we definitely have the right to limit who and what comes into this country --- Muslims have plenty of Islamic countries to live in.
I do understand the sentiment. There are elements of Islam that need to be reformed, or pushed aside completely. I would agree, personally, I think it must start with getting rid of some of the backwards Islamic regimes, but that is easier said than done....
This is one of the reasons why a criminal like Saddam Hussein found it so easy to take over and oppress the Iraqi people.
The Arabs have not had a reputation for successful, or serious, war-making for over 1,000 years!
It's worth noting that the great Christian Crusades to take back the Holyland started with the Arab administrator of Egypt literally requesting European Christian assistance in breaking the Seljuk Turk blockade of the pilgrim (tourist) business!
In the end the Crusaders were evicted from the Holyland by a Kurd named Sal Al Din.
It's disengenuous for an Arab punk like Usama Bin Laden to express concern about the Crusades. Simply proves he doesn't know Arab history, or he does but knows that people in the West have forgotten and don't care!
This vocal minority that you mention is thought to be about 10% of the entire moslem population. (Though some place that figure even higher, let's stick with this conservative number.)
IOW, just 10% of the moslems in the US puts that number at about 300,000.
I've seen the 10% figure before, but if that applies to the entire Mulsim population globally, that does not necessarily mean that 10% of the US Mulsim population is violent and radical. In fact, it is probably far less.
"Do you have proof for the assertion that Islam is the cause of nearly all world violence?"
Here's a start:
http://www.iwvpa.net/trib_iraq/lucas_ph.htm
Phil Lucas, editor of the Panama City, Fla., News Herald, April 4, 2004, editorial "Up Against Fanaticism," says:
"We could fill the newspaper every morning with mobs of fanatical Muslims. They can’t get along with their neighbors on much of the planet: France, Chechnya, Bosnia, Indonesia, Spain, Morocco, India, Tunisia, Somalia, etc. etc. etc. Can anybody name three ongoing world conflicts in which Muslims are not involved? Today, where there is war, there are fanatical Muslims. We might quibble about who started what conflicts, but look at the sheer number of them."
One reason I distrust Muslims: lack of "outrage" and even some celebration on 9/11, along with their failure to denounce beheadings, etc., etc., etc.
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