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Apple Releases OSX.3.7 - update.
Apple Computer ^ | 12/14/2004

Posted on 12/16/2004 1:45:25 AM PST by Swordmaker

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To: Swordmaker
Ok, I'm not looking for a fight just some enlightenment, so could some of you Mac enthusiasts answer a few simple questons for me?

#1 Why do they cost so much?

#2 What are the specs? IE processor speed,Memory,Hard drive size?

#3How upgradeable are they? Those computer in the monitor things look cool but can you increase the RAM,Hard drive size etc?

#4Why 17" monitors? it would seem putting the computer in the monitor would save alot of space on the desk top why not a bigger monitor?

#5 Are there or are there not any cool games for them?Will they run DOS or Windows games?

#6I hear they are virtually virus and spyware free other than that do they do anything else better than a PC?

#7I hear the OS is what really sets them apart why don't they sell a PC version of the OS?

#8Alot of Mac users tell me "I'm not into games" I don't get this, how could anyone not like at least 1 of the thousands of games available today?If you're not into games why would anyone spend that much money on a machine for work?internet?photo/audio editing? It seems like all of these things could be done alot cheaper.

81 posted on 12/16/2004 10:44:58 AM PST by edchambers ("Pajamahadin Neocon footsoldier of the Haliburton Death squad Digital brown shirts")
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To: Izzy Dunne
(sniperoo)then spend hours and hours on dealing with virus crap and antivirus crap, and value their own time at nothing.

Actually computers are nothing but a leisure activity for me and I get a great deal of satisfaction out of diagnosing and fixing problems with them,tweaking,modifying,upgrading.I don't know what I'd do if a computer came straight out of the box set up to my satisfaction.

82 posted on 12/16/2004 11:15:43 AM PST by edchambers ("Pajamahadin Neocon footsoldier of the Haliburton Death squad Digital brown shirts")
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To: edchambers
I get a great deal of satisfaction out of diagnosing and fixing problems with them

I'm happy that you have a hobby you enjoy. For me, the computer is an appliance that performs work for me and I would prefer not to be interrupted.

83 posted on 12/16/2004 11:28:31 AM PST by Glenn (The two keys to character: 1) Learn how to keep a secret. 2) ...)
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To: Glenn
(snip)I'm happy that you have a hobby you enjoy. For me, the computer is an appliance that performs work for me and I would prefer not to be interrupted.

Then what are you doing on FR?!? Get back to work slacker!

84 posted on 12/16/2004 11:43:07 AM PST by edchambers ("Pajamahadin Neocon footsoldier of the Haliburton Death squad Digital brown shirts")
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To: Fatalis
Name one that won't

DOOM3

85 posted on 12/16/2004 11:50:49 AM PST by edchambers ("Pajamahadin Neocon footsoldier of the Haliburton Death squad Digital brown shirts")
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To: edchambers

Bzzzzt Wrong. Doom III is already running on Macintosh computers although it is still not avaliable for sale, but really I've played it... Nothing worth playing to be honest and I'm a "hardcore" gamer so I know what I'm talking about.


86 posted on 12/16/2004 12:15:36 PM PST by The Wulf
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To: The Wulf

Sorry, that last post made me seem arrogant and angry. Also to clarify, I played it through on the PC (no illegal activities for me). Besides most people don't use their Macintoshes to waste time, they use them to make their lives easier and their work more efficient.


87 posted on 12/16/2004 12:18:02 PM PST by The Wulf
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To: edchambers
I get a great deal of satisfaction out of diagnosing and fixing problems with them,tweaking,modifying,upgrading.

And if you like doing that sort of thing, then more power to you.
Some people like to tinker with car engines. Others just want to drive the thing.

88 posted on 12/16/2004 12:41:55 PM PST by Izzy Dunne (Hello, I'm a TAGLINE virus. Please help me spread by copying me into YOUR tag line.)
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To: antiRepublicrat
In my experience, most production Apache installs are for Linux or other 'nix variants, with Windows very low on the list.

I don't dispute that. Let's recap:

  1. stockpirate: I said someone could spend the time to create a virus that would attck a Mac, but why waste the time on so few computers. If it is software it can be hacked. What big internet servers are Macs?
  2. PrinceCharles: The latest Netcraft web server survey finds only 21% of .com domains are using MS server software. I wonder why?
  3. Me: Netcraft shows Apache at 67%. Apache can run on just about any OS: Mac X/Linux/Unix, Novell Netware, Microsoft Windows, and some EBCDIC machines. Just because they're not running MS IIS doesn't mean they're Macs.
I was just saying PrinceCharles wasn't answering stockpirate's question with those numbers. Presumably a Mac OS X machine would run Apache for a web server, but much cheaper machines can run Apache as well, and this IMO is why (we all seem to agree) that Macs aren't used often for web servers; not because Mac OS X is or isn't unhackable. If I've split the hair too fine, I apologize. :)
89 posted on 12/16/2004 12:48:12 PM PST by CanisMajor2002 (“My religious beliefs don’t allow me to be scared.” -- SPC Antrone Vaughn)
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To: CanisMajor2002
Presumably a Mac OS X machine would run Apache for a web server

The discussion is getting a bit convoluted. With OS X, many new server installs would likely be running Apache, but a lot of people who started web serving on the older Macs (like the Army's site) run 4D WebSTAR. Unlike Apache, which is basically the Darwin port with some management tools, WebSTAR is designed for OS X.

90 posted on 12/16/2004 12:59:17 PM PST by antiRepublicrat
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To: edchambers
#1 Why do they cost so much?

They actually COST a lot less than Windows machines. Their initial price is higher, but the cost is lower.

#2 What are the specs? IE processor speed,Memory,Hard drive size?

I'm not a vendor. Go to Apple.com or Macmall.com or SmallDog.com or MacWarehouse.com or your local Apple store.

#3How upgradeable are they? Those computer in the monitor things look cool but can you increase the RAM,Hard drive size etc?

Again, you'll have to do your own research on that one.

#4Why 17" monitors? it would seem putting the computer in the monitor would save alot of space on the desk top why not a bigger monitor?

So buy the 20-inch one.

#5 Are there or are there not any cool games for them?

Depends on hat you call "cool" . I'm not a gamer.

Will they run DOS or Windows games?

With Virtual PC (an add-on program), they will. Not as fast as a real Windows box, but playable, I'm told.

#6I hear they are virtually virus and spyware free other than that do they do anything else better than a PC?

Look better.
Easier, more consistent interface.
Faster number crunching.
Less maintenance.

#7I hear the OS is what really sets them apart why don't they sell a PC version of the OS?

Because they're a hardware company. They would have to develop ten thousand driver pieces for all the incompatible crap that PC users tolerate.

#8Alot of Mac users tell me "I'm not into games" I don't get this, how could anyone not like at least 1 of the thousands of games available today?

I don't have time to test a thousand games to find one I like. It just doesn't interest me. Deal with it.

If you're not into games why would anyone spend that much money on a machine for work?internet?photo/audio editing? It seems like all of these things could be done alot cheaper.

I think you are confusing price and cost. Besides, do you think Windows would have done audio editing, if Mac hadn't done it first? Do you think Windows would be doing photo editing if Mac hadn't done it first? Do you think Windows would be doing Internet serving / surfing if Mac hadn't done it first?

91 posted on 12/16/2004 1:00:23 PM PST by Izzy Dunne (Hello, I'm a TAGLINE virus. Please help me spread by copying me into YOUR tag line.)
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To: edchambers
#1 Why do they cost so much?

First, the cost premium for owning a Mac isn't what it used to be. They've lowered their costs substantially. Second, even the lowest end Mac still have a fairly good feature set and high quality hardware so they simply don't have systems that are as bare-bones as some PCs. If you compare it to a PC with similar features, the current batch of Macs often doesn't cost that much more. In the case of laptops, I'd argue that you can often get a better deal with the Mac. Third, Apple doesn't allow its resellers to discount. No, I don't know why. But what they'll often do instead is give you free extras (like extra memory or a free printer) if you use a mail order retailer.

#2 What are the specs? IE processor speed,Memory,Hard drive size?

You can't directly compare the clock speed of a PowerPC processor with an x86 processor, the memory, or even hard drive sizes and expect them to mean the same things on each system. The OS is different. The processor instruction set is different. The software is different. The bottom line is that the high-end Mac stuff is currently a bit slower than the high-end PC stuff. At the more consumer level, I'm plenty happy with how fast my Mac works. Unless you really need the absolute fastest hardware available for either graphics rendering or games (your questions #5 and #8), then this isn't a big issue in my opinion. How fast is the Mac? Answer? Fast enough for most people.

#3How upgradeable are they? Those computer in the monitor things look cool but can you increase the RAM,Hard drive size etc?

I used to think that was a problem. I got over it. How upgradable is a PC laptop? At the very least, this is a non-issue in the laptop market.

#4Why 17" monitors? it would seem putting the computer in the monitor would save alot of space on the desk top why not a bigger monitor?

See your first question. 17" monitors are currently the price sweet-spot for flat screen monitors and they are what a lot of people are used to looking at where they work these days. There is a 20" iMac, by the way, if you want to pay for it. If price is not object, get a G5 tower and Apple's 30-inch Cinema HD Display.

#5 Are there or are there not any cool games for them?Will they run DOS or Windows games?

I consider quite a few of the Mac games cool. There are ports of Civilization, Starcraft, The Sims, Warcraft, etc. for the Mac. If I was buying a computer for the games, I'd own a Playstation 2 or XBox because I can't get a lot of the cool games found on those platforms for the PC, either.

#6I hear they are virtually virus and spyware free other than that do they do anything else better than a PC?

Yes. The productivity applications provides with OSX are excellent. The included Safari browser works quite well and blocks pop-ups. I prefer the look and feel of Microsoft Office and Internet Exporer on my Mac over the look and feel of Office on a PC.

On a more technical note, OSX comes with an X-Windows server, is a Unix-based operating system taht comes with a lot of software that has to be added to a Windows PC, and can run a lot of software ported over from the Linux world. That means that using open source technology like PostgreSQL, PHP, Apache, and so on is a lot easier with a Mac.

Finally, Macs are generally more "turn on and go" than PCs are. I've never had a problem taking a Mac into the office and connecting it to the network or printers there. A friend, on the other hand, still can't figure out how to connect his Windows laptop to my home wireless network -- and we've tried two different wireless routers so fare. There are also a lot fewer software configuration and update changes on a Mac that require a reboot after they are done and there are no DLL-Hell type problems with the Mac, either.

#7I hear the OS is what really sets them apart why don't they sell a PC version of the OS?

First, because Apple is a hardware manufacturer as well as a software maker. Let me put it this way... why doesn't Microsoft port MS Office to Linux? Because then the left hand (applications) would be hurting the right hand (operating systems). If Apple ported OSX to the PC, they'd help their software sales but destroy their hardware sales.

Second, the fact that Apple controls the hardware is actually a large part of why the Mac experience is so good. Macs don't have driver problems and hardware incompatibility problems for the most part because you normally don't plug cheap surprise third-party components into a Mac. And if something goes wrong, you put in the diagnosis disk that will check everything, including the logic board, because Apple controls the whole platform. Not only to I chuckle when PC users talk about viruses and worms but I also chuckle when PC users talk about driver problems and hardware compatibility problems. Like viruses, it's a non-issue on the Mac.

#8Alot of Mac users tell me "I'm not into games" I don't get this, how could anyone not like at least 1 of the thousands of games available today?If you're not into games why would anyone spend that much money on a machine for work?internet?photo/audio editing? It seems like all of these things could be done alot cheaper.

I have several games on my Mac, including Age of Empires II, Civilization III, Starcraft, and Masters of Orion 3. I just don't waste much time on them and they aren't a big factor in deciding which computer to buy for me. If I was really into hard-core gaming, I'd probably get a Playstation 2 or XBox or if I wanted a PC-only game, I'd get a PC. I've got too many other things making demands on my time to sit around playing most of the new games that come out. If they are really hot and popular, the odds are good that they'll eventually get ported over to the Mac. That delay is only a problem if you are concerned about having the latest instead of the best.

The point which I'm sure you don't get is the Mac is a machine that you can use without having to worry about tinkering with it. No, I'm not an idiot. I actually sysadmin Linux machines at work and can do Windows, too. But when I'm home using my personal computer, I'd rather spend my time doing what I really want to do rather than tinkering with the computer to make it work properly. The Mac just works and works well. If you have an infinite amount of time to play games, tinker with problems, and enjoy the challenge of figuring out why a piece of hardware or software doesn't work as a recreational activity, then perhaps a Mac isn't right for you. I've never claimed that the Mac is right for everyone.

92 posted on 12/16/2004 1:27:54 PM PST by Question_Assumptions
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To: Izzy Dunne
To be fair, the first web surfing was done on a Sun Workstation. :-)

But people need to remember that Microsoft only eventually added a TCP/IP stack (the component that allows a PC to connect directly to the Internet) to Windows after they realized they could create their own proprietary Internet with MSN. In other words, Microsoft didn't lead the way to the Internet. It was dragged there kicking and screaming and if they had their way, Windows users would all be trapped using a proprietary MSN.

93 posted on 12/16/2004 1:35:37 PM PST by Question_Assumptions
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To: Question_Assumptions
To be fair, the first web surfing was done on a Sun Workstation.

Actually, Tim Berners-Lee (spelling?) was using a NEXT box, but your point is still correct.
I should have said "earlier" in that case, rather than "first".

In any case, Mac was doing both ends before Windows even moved out of the 16-bit world.

94 posted on 12/16/2004 1:46:53 PM PST by Izzy Dunne (Hello, I'm a TAGLINE virus. Please help me spread by copying me into YOUR tag line.)
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To: Izzy Dunne
(snip)"They actually COST a lot less than Windows machines. Their initial price is higher, but the cost is lower."

Hmm, I see, the complete Dells and HPs I see for around $400 somehow "cost" more than the $795 eMac.

2 What are the specs? Do you not know the specs of your machine?I know the Dell I bought two years ago with a 17" monitor,2Ghz processor, 60GB hard drive,DVDR burner,and 256 megs of RAM was about $600.Since then I have spent around $200 doubling the RAM and adding a 128 meg video card.

"Look better. Easier, more consistent interface. Faster number crunching. Less maintenance."

Unfortunately none of this does enough for me to be willing to spend nearly twice as much.

"they're a hardware company. They would have to develop ten thousand driver pieces for all the incompatible crap that PC users tolerate."

Microsoft does it, so does Linux and all of it's variants, and they do it for free.

"Do you think Windows would be doing Internet serving / surfing if Mac hadn't done it first?"

Sure they'd find someone else doing it and buy them out like they've done since the original MicroSoft Disk Operating System.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

95 posted on 12/16/2004 2:22:42 PM PST by edchambers ("Pajamahadin Neocon footsoldier of the Haliburton Death squad Digital brown shirts")
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To: Question_Assumptions
If you enjoy the challenge of figuring out why a piece of hardware or software doesn't work as a recreational activity, then perhaps a Mac isn't right for you. I've never claimed that the Mac is right for everyone. First of all thank you for your intelligent and non attitude response to my questions.And as you so eloquently put it {see above} Macs are not for me.Until I can somehow justify spending alot of money on my fourth computer, not easy when 3 are still going strong and occupying space in my house,I'll have to amuse myself tinkering with my funky old PCs.
96 posted on 12/16/2004 2:53:52 PM PST by edchambers ("Pajamahadin Neocon footsoldier of the Haliburton Death squad Digital brown shirts")
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To: edchambers
Hmm, I see, the complete Dells and HPs I see for around $400 somehow "cost" more than the $795 eMac.

I could sell you a complete C64 system for $200 but that wouldn't make it a better deal.

You can buy mac systems from $10 (an early used Powermac) on up. OK, so it wouldn't be new from Apple, but my point is that your comparison isn't really valid. If you want to argue that for $1000 you get a lot more PC than you do for $1000 on a mac that would make sense.

Microsoft does it, so does Linux and all of it's variants, and they do it for free.

And again, the fact that Apple doesn't have to is one of the reasons that people like its OS. You plug in hardware and it works. In addition to the hardware being extremely compatible the user interface across applications is very standardized, something I would like to see more of elsewhere.

Look, I don't use a mac personally, I have about a half dozen PC lying around, although I personally only use a couple of them anymore. I did at one point in time use a Wallstreet Powerbook and it was an excellent machine. But I'm going to have to venture a guess here: you aren't really looking for enlightenment, you are looking to agitate some mac users. You can fool some of the people some of the time.... ;-)

-paridel
97 posted on 12/16/2004 2:59:57 PM PST by Paridel
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To: Izzy Dunne
Again, this has been disproven time and again. It's a canard. The fact is there are NO viruses active for Mac OSX (I do remember the WDEF virus in 1990 or so, but that's dead). There are THOUSANDS active TODAY for Windows.

Maybe proven in your mind -- but not reality. Macs are just as vulnerable as any other platform.
98 posted on 12/16/2004 3:32:47 PM PST by Bush2000
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To: Swordmaker

This "article" is nothing more than blatant advertising. Violates FR posting rules. Stop posting excerpts from Apple's website.


99 posted on 12/16/2004 3:36:01 PM PST by Bush2000
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To: Bush2000
This "article" is nothing more than blatant advertising. Violates FR posting rules. Stop posting excerpts from Apple's website.

Has that ever really worked for you?

100 posted on 12/16/2004 3:36:52 PM PST by Glenn (The two keys to character: 1) Learn how to keep a secret. 2) ...)
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