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Morton Kondracke: Immigration reform is a worthy issue for Bush (CITIZENSHIP for illegal aliens)
Naples Daily News ^ | 12/14/2004 | Morton Kondracke

Posted on 12/15/2004 7:26:47 PM PST by nanak

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To: Fatalis

No


121 posted on 12/15/2004 10:22:15 PM PST by bayourod (Our troops are already securing our borders against terrorists. They're killing them in Iraq.)
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To: bayourod
So you suspected their illegality but asked no questions and continued to allow them to work on your property.

That's not exactly due diligence on your part.

122 posted on 12/15/2004 10:25:28 PM PST by Fatalis
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To: Travis McGee
Future growth for the GOP in this demographic (Hispanic) depends upon who calls the shots on policy — Bush and McCain, or restrictionists such as Reps. Tom Tancredo, R-Colo., Elton Gallegly, D-Calif., and Dana Rohrabacher, R-Calif.

I'm not so sure opposition to illegal immigration is such a loser. I attach a post I made on another thread below;

The popular political fiction that to oppose Illegal Immigration is to risk a loss of Hispanic and other Legal Immigrant/citizen votes would appear to fly in the face of logic. After all, Illegals end up competing directly with Legals for the very entry level jobs Legals are prepared/need to assume and, in this process, drives down wages for both groups and raises unemployment for Legals higher than it would be save for the Illegals competition. - i.e. A losing proposition for Legals and perhaps Naturalized Immigrants, higher Social costs to taxpayers and general chaos all around.

I'm not aware of any polls on this subject but I suspect there would be more opposition to Illegal Immigration by Legals than conventional wisdom suggests. Anyone aware of such a poll?

123 posted on 12/15/2004 10:29:00 PM PST by drt1
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To: bayourod
Did the think the laborers building your wall exhibited better attitudes about doing the work than your neighbor's 22 year old daughter would if she were forced to do that type work?

How many twenty-year old latinas do you see on construction sites?

124 posted on 12/15/2004 10:31:10 PM PST by primeval patriot (Let me off at Archer, and I'll walk down to Greenwood)
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To: Travis McGee

"I don't like where this "master and servant" mentality is taking America."

Amen. These issues are economically, socially, culturally, and politically intertwined and potentially devastating in the long run.

I have spoken on many posts about how many of these policies adopted worldwide are leading to establishment of neo-feudal societies.

I define Neo-feudal society as one where capitalism and socialism merge into a third way economic system. It could also be considered a neo-caste system. The first country to achieve this system will be China IMHO, but thats a topic for another thread or two!


125 posted on 12/15/2004 10:31:44 PM PST by Dat Mon (clever tagline under construction)
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To: drt1
Illegals end up competing directly with Legals for the very entry level jobs Legals are prepared/need to assume

How about guest IT/technical workers (on H-1b and L-1 visas) competing with AMERICANS?

126 posted on 12/15/2004 10:33:09 PM PST by nanak (Tom Tancredo 2008:Last Hope to Save America)
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To: Dat Mon
"If this owner had to pay a decent wage for his menial labor, he would entertain the prospect of buying a somewhat more expensive machine from ME, an American manufacturer of high tech, which allows him to employ less unskilled workers, but more SKILLED workers instead, increasing his productivity. "

You've never been in a machine shop have you? Give yourself a very quick but very valuable education. Do a Google search for "CNC machines" and just glance at a few of the sites.

127 posted on 12/15/2004 10:36:16 PM PST by bayourod (Our troops are already securing our borders against terrorists. They're killing them in Iraq.)
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To: gubamyster; HiJinx; Joe Hadenuf; SandRat; Ajnin; FITZ; dennisw; ApesForEvolution; Lunkhead_01; ...

Please see my post #123. Not sure how to Ping yet.


128 posted on 12/15/2004 10:37:00 PM PST by drt1
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To: skeeter
OBL "Americans" won't honor any law that interferes with their pocketbooks

If you didn't figure this out when Clinton got reelected you never will.

129 posted on 12/15/2004 10:39:46 PM PST by Once-Ler ("He lives in Madison, WI. No wonder he thinks Bush is a conservative!")
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To: usadave
Thanks
130 posted on 12/15/2004 10:40:09 PM PST by Fatalis
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To: nanak
How about guest IT/technical workers (on H-1b and L-1 visas) competing with AMERICANS?

That's true. My concern in the post was the immigrant minority who are voters and at the lower/entry level end of the job chain.

131 posted on 12/15/2004 10:40:20 PM PST by drt1
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To: bayourod
You've never been in a machine shop have you?

*Raises hand*

Are you not offering enough incentives to hire U.S. citizens?

But when you've got an endless supply of third-worlders theres no need.

132 posted on 12/15/2004 10:42:23 PM PST by primeval patriot (Let me off at Archer, and I'll walk down to Greenwood)
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To: Dat Mon

Very thought provoking post. Maybe even 3 threads worth! :-)


133 posted on 12/15/2004 10:43:13 PM PST by drt1
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To: bayourod

Hey, Bayourod--why don't you ever answer any of the tough questions that people toss at you?


134 posted on 12/15/2004 10:43:14 PM PST by Calico Cat (the simplest solution is usually the correct one)
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To: Lunkhead_01
Real immigration reform would place a bounty on each crimalien captured. Each crimalien so turned over would have his or her face permanently tatooed bright red.

Another keeper. What's funny is you think anybody outside of your ever shrinking point of view will respond favorably to this.

135 posted on 12/15/2004 10:43:23 PM PST by Once-Ler ("He lives in Madison, WI. No wonder he thinks Bush is a conservative!")
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To: nanak
Seador Juan McCain, Representativo Jim Kolbe, Representativo Jeff Flake

And they just keep on getting re-elected Kolbe's been re-elected like 10 times now. McCain has 20 years of service too? Don't the voters of Arizona understand the issue of illegal immigration as clearly as people from where ever you are?

136 posted on 12/15/2004 10:47:43 PM PST by Once-Ler ("He lives in Madison, WI. No wonder he thinks Bush is a conservative!")
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To: primeval patriot
A number of FReepers have made statements to the effect that illegals are taking jobs away from teenagers.

As an employer which would you prefer, a twenty year old boy or girl doing a job that they considered unpleasant just to make some spending money during Summer vacation or a thirty year old immigrant who is thankful to have the job in order to feed his family?

Which employee would you prefer. One who is wanting to get a better, easier job or one who thinks the one he has is just fine?

Would you prefer an employee who thinks the job he's doing is beneath him but begrudgingly does it, or one who takes pride in the job and feels no shame in telling his friends what he does?

137 posted on 12/15/2004 10:47:49 PM PST by bayourod (Our troops are already securing our borders against terrorists. They're killing them in Iraq.)
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To: Calico Cat
Are you refering to the question of how we handle "coolie" labor? That's not hard. We handle it the same way we handled coolie labor.

Supply and demand, free markets, capitalism, etc...

138 posted on 12/15/2004 10:53:09 PM PST by bayourod (Our troops are already securing our borders against terrorists. They're killing them in Iraq.)
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To: bayourod

"You've never been in a machine shop have you?"

My company subcontracts to local CNC machine shops all the time. I primarily use a small shop I know where the owner is a small businessman I can trust for quality and delivery.

Whats your point? What am I missing here?


139 posted on 12/15/2004 10:57:29 PM PST by Dat Mon (clever tagline under construction)
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To: bayourod

But don't you think that the more sinister aspect of this laissez-faire 'capitalism' you espouse is an active interest in keeping a certain percentage of the population uneducated and desperate? Right now, Mexico has no interest in providing for its own population, because they can be farmed out to the U.S. In return, the U.S. has no interest in putting pressure on Mexico to reform, because Mexico is a source for an endless supply of cheap labor.

(If I don't respond tonight...I've got to get some sleep, but I'll try to get back here tomorrow).


140 posted on 12/15/2004 10:58:05 PM PST by Calico Cat (the simplest solution is usually the correct one)
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