Posted on 12/14/2004 4:45:48 PM PST by yonif
McKINNEY, Texas (AP) - A mother who admitted killing her baby daughter by severing the girl's arms was guided by a Bible passage in which Jesus refers to cutting off body parts to cast away sin, the woman's attorney said Tuesday.
Dena Schlosser, a 35-year-old housewife with a history of mental illness, has referred to the New Testament passage since the killing of 10-month-old Margaret, attorney David Haynes told The Associated Press.
In the Book of Matthew, Jesus says: ``If thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.''
Schlosser was charged with capital murder Nov. 22, after she told a 911 operator she had cut off her baby's arms. Police found her in the living room, covered in blood, still holding a knife and listening to a hymn.
Haynes said Schlosser was mentally ill at the time.
He said Schlosser is still disoriented but is improving under medication she is receiving in jail.
``She knows the baby is dead,'' he said. ``I think she understands generally the physical facts of how that came to be, but she is now conscious that her mind has not been clear for years and she's still coming to grips with that.''
Schlosser had been hospitalized for postpartum depression in January as part of an investigation by the state's child-protection agency. Social workers said she exhibited symptoms of psychosis but improved with medication and psychiatric help, and the agency closed the investigation in August.
Yep, we see them come and go every day. And after X number of days and Y amount of treatment, we have to discharge them. At best back to family or a group home, worse just back to the homeless shelter. But they always come back, mentally and physically sicker than before. While there are some creeps, most of them are so lost and low functioning it's like throwing puppies into the highway.
Quoting Bible text is very common, but almost anything with directions or admonitions has been a focus. But because the Bible is the most read book in the world, I guess it would be the most prevalent. At least half believe they're God, Jesus or at least, one of the angels. Sometimes it is a table or chair that is talking (that is easier to see as crazy). Sometimes it is just a voice. But it seems they are always getting commands or directions. The silliest being to get nekkid and sign hymns, the worst being to hurt someone.
I have had my hair pulled, been grabbed and told I God was telling them to subdue the demon within me (yeah, me). I have seen people crying their eyes out about witnessing the murder of their families (it didn't happen). Then there are those who are just in a constant rage, period,because they believe they are sane and WE are all demons, thieves and murderers.
I have had patients who refused to eat and were starving to death because they saw filth and vermin in all food. Another would routinely come in dehydrated and starving because she too wouldn't eat. She had figured out that it caused elimination, and anything that happened below her waist threw her into fits of hysteria (guess what happened to HER as a kid?).
Ya wanna know evil? Evil is a man who was passed around like candy from infancy to teens by his parents- to friends of both genders. I saw him years ago as an angelic faced, but very twisted boy that the Dr.s were trying to bring to some for of normalcy. They failed I guess. He'll be institutionalized for the rest of his life.
I had a serial rapist complain that his eggs weren't cooked like his grannies, flirting with me the entire time. I had man who had raped his 12 year old sister ask for more food and complain that people were acting mean to him. BTW, person one was faking crazy (we all knew it) and was sent to prison, person two was well, insane, but fully aware of the harm he was doing.
Evil is sociopath like Scott Peterson, a selfish witch like Susan Smith or our all time favorite, just plain crazy Charles Manson.
I have been around those who have killed, are insane and truly oblivious, the youngest being 4 year old. I wish I could tell you they were like Hannable Lechter, or some mad, drooling fiend. I wish I could tell you that they were obviously evil. I wish I could tell you there was some clear clue to what made them deranged. I wish I could tell you I hated them. But most of the time, looking at them is like looking into a cave. There was nothing there. All I felt was extreme caution around them and great sorrow for those they had harmed.
Oh, yeah. And very grateful they were locked away. Which is what started this ;)
Sorry to disagree with you but she had a history of mental illness. Of course no one predicted this to happen (no brainer). But those around her must have had some feeling of hesitation in her being left alone with their baby. In fact the husband called 911 as he had a feeling something was wrong. Of course she is responsible..but, I believe some signs "might" have been there. Perhaps the severing of the childs arms were never predicted, but her state of mental health was evident; thus causing the husband to call 911.
A terrible case. A horrible death.
Regards
fight_truth_decay
There was a good interview on KOB (Albuquerque radio station) right after the Andrea Yates story broke. An OBGYN nurse described here experience with post-partum depression. She said she had feelings like here child was possessed by Satan among others. However, she recognized the symptoms and immediately got help. One point she made was that estrogen levels drop by about a factor of 100. It's a real shock to the body.
I'm not sure this applies to the arm-severing case.
Oh, baloney. She was guided by satan, not Jesus.
Amen.
Crucify her.
I have read a bit about her history, and the only indication that her mental illness affected her childcare was an accusation of neglect--not abuse--that social workers decided was resolved and that any neglect issues were solved. Her husband called 911 AFTER she went crackers on the phone with him, not the night before he left or the day before they talked. She called up AFTER chopping the kid's arms off.
I'm not saying that the dad DOESN'T feel guilty and responsible. But I will be the first, maybe the only person here, to say he SHOULDN'T. When someone else does something horrible, you are not personally responsible for it. The Columbine parents aren't responsible for their kids going loopy. Andrea Yates' husband isn't responsible for her murders. They might FEEL that way. Their victims want to act that way, because the perpetrators are dead, of course, and there's no one else to project blame upon. But the criminals are those who committed the acts.
Anyone else is a victim, both in the sense that they have been robbed of the criminal's companionship by their illegal act and subsequent punishment, and of liberal 'root cause' theory. That theory, long disproven, says that criminals don't commit crimes--it's their environment that does it. And folks who want to blame the husband are falling prey to it.
They are not, I agree, responsible first hand for the murders of record; however in all cases there were warning signs which were overlooked.
The agency (CPS) has argued that the girls' father, John Schlosser, failed to protect his children from their mother, who told him the night before the killings that she wanted to give her children to God, according to court records."
Schlosser also was treated for postpartum depression-fact. David Haynes said Schlosser was mentally ill at the time..mentally ill the day of the crime and not mentally ill the day before? Repeating scriptures over and over the day of the crime and not seen as obsessed on the days before?
I guess I don't hold blame but on the murderer[s]at fault. But when you live close to someone I find it difficult that signs do not present themselves in some form or other should a family member or friend want to admit to possible red flags before such a horrific murder results.
Even the person or persons who commit such heinous acts have a responsibility to seek help and not cover up their suspected mental illnesses or overwhelming fixations on doing harm to another or others. Often a family member with a closed eye is embarrassed for the sake of the family and chooses to hide the suspicions readily apparent; never imagining with this person or persons in question would be capable of such vicious acts.
I guess the question is always in hindsight could one have done something to prevent the criminal outcome. But what do I know, just one person's opinion from questions that fly to mind.
Uh, no... the cited verse might have prompted her to cut her OWN arms off, but severing the baby's is just a product of evil.
So, we could say that any book, TV show, or magazine that the nut-job saw "lead her" to cut off her daughter's arms. What a bunch of crap. No wonder the MSM is going down the tubes. And not a second too soon either.
Did the MSM ever attribute the unibomber's killing of people to Algore's book? Of course not. Did the Unibomber have Algore's book in his hovel? Of course.
I agree there were warning signs, but let's put it this way: are the British people responsible for Hitler's aggression? They could see he was a right bastard. Yet they didn't do anything to stop him before he invaded Poland.
Are the American people responsible for Joe Stalin? They KNEW he had killed thousands, if not millions, and yet they didn't do anything to end his reign after WWII.
In both cases, much as we regret the fact that they did not stop these tyrants, we would not blame them for the actions of these madmen. The same is true regarding folks like Schlosser, who may have seen some warning signs but could not even imagine the horrors to come. There are just some things normal people do not anticipate.
The passage deals with eliminating sources of sin in yourself, not what you can do to an innocent.
Normal might mean a blind eye to our society and the evilness within.
by the way, this endocronologic problem is becoming too prevelent in our animals, too, and too many vets are not trained to look for underlying disease. it turns out the hormone issues are not only in the female of the species (human/animal) but males as well.
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