Freegards!!!
Posted on 12/11/2004 6:12:01 AM PST by Mr. Mojo
The Coast Guard is trading in the 9 mm sidearms it has used for 18 years in favor of a more powerful pistol, the Sig Sauer .40-caliber automatic.
Lt. j.g. John Strasburg of the Office of Cutter Forces at Coast Guard Headquarters in Washington, D.C., said the service has started to take delivery on the first of 12,000 handguns to be purchased under a $4.2 million contract. Field units will start to get them next September.
“It's going to take a while to get all the weapons out to the fleet,” Strasburg said. “The transition plans are still in development in terms of who's going to get them first. The target date of September 2005 is only when we're going to start the transition. It may take a year after that to get it out to the entire Coast Guard.”
Eventually personnel authorized to carry sidearms at Station New London and the Coast Guard Academy will have the guns.
He said 22 Coast Guard marksmen helped to evaluate 46 models of handguns from six major vendors, firing 15,000 rounds during three weeks of tests in Altoona, Pa., and Fort Benning, Ga. The guns were each rated on 53 characteristics, and the shooters kept detailed logs about the rounds they fired.
“It was a very extensive evaluation,” Strasburg said. “It's all they did for three weeks.”
The testers were looking for a gun with a low-profile hammer so it would not catch on life vests at sea, and they wanted a particular type of rail that would allow the service to mount lights for a laser sight or illumination on top of the gun.
He said this is the first time the service has adopted a handgun other than the one used by the Department of Defense, which still uses the 9 mm.
The acquisition program coincides with the acquisition of new guns by the Department of Homeland Security, the parent agency of the Coast Guard. The department is outfitting its offices of Immigration and Customs Enforcement, Customs and Border Protection, Transportation Security Administration and Federal Law Enforcement Training Center with Sig Sauer and Heckler & Koch handguns in 9 mm as well as .357- and .40-caliber.
At the time it was put into use, the 9 mm was hailed for its large magazine — 17 rounds — and long-range accuracy. It replaced the .45-caliber automatic, which was heavy and had limited accuracy, but had enormous stopping power.
One Coast Guard officer said the Sig Sauer .40 makes more sense for boarding teams and other law enforcement functions because its heavier round provides greater stopping power, and when it is used it will probably be at close range and in a situation where the Sig Sauer's 12 rounds will be more than sufficient.
Strasburg said another problem is that the 9 mm pistols are aging. They were designed to fire up to 5,000 rounds, but Coast Guard guns fire an average of 500 rounds per year, mostly in training, so the average 9 mm in service now has fired almost twice that number of rounds.
“The Berettas have gone long beyond their service life,” Strasburg said. “We're getting a lot of frame failures, and there are other unreliability issues.”
The .40-caliber Sig Sauer emerged from the tests as the top choice of the testers, he said.
“The .45 has the stopping power, the 9 mm has the penetrating power, so this gives us something in between,” Strasburg said.
The gun that the Coast Guard has selected is a variation of the popular Sig Sauer P229 known as the P229R-DAK.
This will also be the first time that the Coast Guard will provide its forces with three different types of ammunition, which can be tailored to a particular mission. The types will be:
•Jacketed ball ammunition, the only type that is in use now, which is designed to pass cleanly through a target. This will be the only ammunition authorized for use in joint operations with the Department of Defense.
•Hollow point, a type of bullet designed to mushroom on impact, causing a more devastating wound.
•Frangible or “soft” rounds, made of ceramic or metal powder that are designed to break apart into dust when they hit something hard, to prevent ricochets during close-quarters combat.
“The reactions so far have been phenomenal,” Strasburg said. “We have a lot of experienced shooters in the office, people with a lot of trigger time, and they all say it fires great.”
The 17 is THE .22 revolver. I also have an 18 that's nice. Have you ever checked out the S&W forum?
http://www.smith-wessonforum.com/cgi-bin/sandwcgi/Ultimate.cgi
Some of the stuff these guys have accumulated, and the pics that get posted have probably cost me thousands. :)
You need to weigh other factors, such as "What might happen if that .45 +P round goes through a wall", which is really what Mag Safe and the other frangibles are designed to minimize.
You could always mix a few frangibles in the front and Hydra Shocks behind. That way you might discourage or incapacitate an attacker but still have some heavier backup rounds if the frangibles don't do the trick.
Oh c'mon. You know what I meant. The Mod 29/629 is obviously a big heavy mutha. I owned both, and I know which was good for what.
And I had a lot of unmushroomed hollow points come out of the snubby SP101. Not enough muzzle velocity. Test it yourself, using Hydra Shocks.
Agreed. IIRC they've also done a lot of good work with the NRA to overhaul that short but intense blight on their reputation.
The 9mm Beretta has been and always will be a sloppy piece of slapdash Euro-Trash.
If the 9mm was supposed to be "The Hot Lick" in sidearms when it first appeared. Why were Special Forces the first ones to scream about its lack of stopping power?
The .40 caliber by Sig Saure is a bit better, but like the Beretta. Has too many bells and whistles (De-Cocking lever) that aren't needed.
Go back to the standard 1911A1 Colt .45 ACP for ALL armed forces!
Jack.
I knew but not all readers would. :-)
Not the DAK. It's DA only
"My, that's a big one."
(tech note: the Cor-Bon 440 grain loading is rated at 2,665 ft/lbs of muzzle energy, surpassing that of an M14 rifle.)
True, paul:
Though, I always fall back on the old adage:
"If you are going to carry a piece. Carry a F^%&*#ing piece!" One that will knock whomever you have in your sights down. Wherever you hit them!
The 9mm hasn't lived up to that adage (excluding head shots). The jury's still out on the .40 caliber.
The only handgun that has been and can again be mass produced to fill the bill is Ol' Slabsides!
Even with its backstrap grip and manual safeties. It's still the only pistol I'm comfortable and confident to carry cocked and locked.
Jack.
Mine: 6-inch S&W Model 66 .357 with Federal 130 grain Hydra-Shok rounds. I don't trust frangible rounds because they give lousy penetration; a surface wound is not going to stop a determined attacker. I want bullets which can make gaping exit wounds.
Next pistol will be a Sig Sauer P220 in .45 ACP.
My local gunshop has one of those in the case
ok, sounds good
Got both a .40 SW and .357 SIG barrel for it. Barrel swap just takes a few moments. I've found that I'm much more accurate with the .357 SIG barrel and ammo than .40 SW.
Hmmm... haven't gone shooting in quite some time. Maybe the coming Christmas holiday would be a good time to go blast away with some of the toys. The AR15 needs a workout, too.
Still lusting for a .50 BMG, though. It'll have to wait quite awhile, though. Too many other things are ranking higher on my list.
Interesting except for the erroneous info on Beretta lifespans...
Freegards!!!
How do you justify the legend of the 45's ENORMOUS stopping power? Tests show 357 stopping power is right up there with the 45 and 357/40 energies are sometimes exceeding those of the 45 depending on loadings.
Is the 45 a better stopper? Maybe. But not enough better that can be quantified. All are "INADEQUATE" manstoppers and one should go with the one that he can place the better shots with. You like the 45. OK. But I'll stay with my 357's and 40's.
With expanding bullets, the .357 Mag, .40 S&W and the .45 ACP are about equal in stopping power.
In the case of full metal jacket military-type ammo, I think the .45 has the edge simply because of its larger diameter.
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