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Head of the Class (illegal immigration/college)
WESTWORD ^ | 12-2-04 | HELEN THORPE

Posted on 12/05/2004 2:58:36 PM PST by AdamSelene235

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To: 1_Inch_Group; 2sheep; 2Trievers; 3AngelaD; 4.1O dana super trac pak; 4Freedom; 4ourprogeny; ...

ping


141 posted on 12/05/2004 10:41:01 PM PST by gubamyster
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To: DoughtyOne; gubamyster

They Just Don't Freaking Get It BTTT


142 posted on 12/05/2004 10:43:52 PM PST by ApesForEvolution (You will NEVER convince me that Muhammadanism isn't a death cult that must end. Save your time...)
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To: ApesForEvolution

They get it. There's an agenda working here. They claim to be conservatives, but advocate the laws of the United States be ignored and our nation's values, language and sovereignty be forfeited. I don't have much stomach for it.


143 posted on 12/05/2004 10:59:33 PM PST by DoughtyOne (US socialist liberalism would be dead without the help of politicians who claim to be conservatives)
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To: AdamSelene235
Maybe she could help him figure out what to do next

Go Home.

Sorry, but the author of this article is trying to appeal to the squishy side of my brain. That side closed when Pablo crossed the border illegally. The non-squishy side of my brain realizes that Pablo is a drain on social services, and a tool in the Mexican government's GDP plan.

Go Home!

144 posted on 12/06/2004 12:15:13 AM PST by 1_Inch_Group
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To: Fatalis
No, his illegal alien status is the entire point

Y'all are blaming the victim.

The "entire point" is that we have an immigration system that is so willfully broken as to be nonexistent.

That's what you should be bitchin' about and there's where the solution has to be.

145 posted on 12/06/2004 6:32:59 AM PST by iconoclast (Conservative, not partisan.)
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To: iconoclast
Y'all are blaming the victim.

The "entire point" is that we have an immigration system that is so willfully broken as to be nonexistent.

Enforcement against organized car insurance scams is virtually non-existent, but once in a while a perp gets caught, and his kids don't get to keep the proceeds of his illegal enterprise. Kids suffer when their parents break laws. Rewarding kids for their parents lawbreaking would only encourage more parental lawbreaking.

The solution to a broken system is not to break it more.

146 posted on 12/06/2004 8:20:05 AM PST by Fatalis
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To: AdamSelene235
Pablo is an ideal candidate for college, except for one hitch: He's illegal.

Then deport him. The violin-playing sob story that follows is superfluous and doesn't change the fact he doesn't belong here.

147 posted on 12/06/2004 8:57:35 AM PST by StoneColdGOP (She calls me *Mini-Merc*)
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To: iconoclast

I prefer to bitch about both points rather than ignore one.


148 posted on 12/06/2004 9:04:44 AM PST by CaptainK
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To: Dat Mon
Do you have any concept of how a scientist is trained to think...to examine...to critique. Do you understand the basis of the scientific method?

I'm a Senior Researcher in field of laser physics. I spend much of my time designing laboratory experiements.

BTW, we aren't discussing a scientific matter here.

You do not believe in entitlements of any kind. If illegals demand entitlements, should they be deported?. If so, how?

Its much easier to withdraw entitlements than to deport those who claim entitlements (the overwhelming majority are unfortunately citizens). One is needlessly coercive while the other is not.

149 posted on 12/06/2004 9:19:14 AM PST by AdamSelene235
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To: AdamSelene235
Yet you seem to feel that illegal aliens are entitled to attend our colleges.
150 posted on 12/06/2004 9:21:06 AM PST by Fatalis
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To: Syncro
But since then, Millions and millions of lawbreaking illegals have walked over the border and we are paying for them.The taxes they don't pay contribute to the BILLIONS of tax-free dollars they send back to Mexico every year so their families there can live better. Who wouldn't want to break a law we don't enforce anyway to scam the evil USA?

Perhaps we should stop behaving like socialist imbeciles.

151 posted on 12/06/2004 9:21:16 AM PST by AdamSelene235
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To: WRhine
Yes, and Drug Dealers, Pimps, Loan Sharks, Extortionists agree with you. Let's get off their backs.

With the exception of the extortionists, I agree.

152 posted on 12/06/2004 9:22:40 AM PST by AdamSelene235
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To: AdamSelene235
A very long read.
While I have some sympathy for the young man, it's still a fact that he is a Mexican citizen, not a citizen of the USA.
The taxpayers of the USA have given him a high school education, basically, free of charge.
Don't try telling me his mother and/or father pay taxes. They are illegal immigrants and either work for under the table wages or pay on someone else's SS number. That someone else could live in Maryland instead of Colorado.

If he wants to stay in the USA then either pay the price expected of an out-of-country student or go back to Mexico and go to college there.
Making wages in the US, I think his parents could afford to send him to a college in Mexico.

153 posted on 12/06/2004 9:24:11 AM PST by Just another Joe (Warning: FReeping can be addictive and helpful to your mental health)
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To: Fatalis
Rewarding kids for their parents lawbreaking would only encourage more parental lawbreaking.

You mean, of course, the laws both of our proud political parties refuse to enforce.

How 'bout taking a time out on the cheer leading after our "victories" and vent some of this anger on those that deserve it .... instead of on a decent, law-abiding, hardworking, intelligent kid.

154 posted on 12/06/2004 9:26:44 AM PST by iconoclast (Conservative, not partisan.)
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To: CaptainK
I prefer to bitch about both points rather than ignore one.

I didn't see a smiley face on this, so may I presume that this article would have been perfect for you if only the kid had been a gang-banger?

155 posted on 12/06/2004 9:31:23 AM PST by iconoclast (Conservative, not partisan.)
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To: iconoclast
How 'bout taking a time out on the cheer leading after our "victories" and vent some of this anger on those that deserve it .... instead of on a decent, law-abiding, hardworking, intelligent kid.

Oh, boo hoo. The kid's an illegal. You don't put any pressure on politicians by getting squishy. Squishy is their excuse.

The failure to enforce the law against illegals is the responsibility of both parties, but they are forever pointing to people like yourself as poster children for their claim that "Americans lack the will to see the laws are enforced."

156 posted on 12/06/2004 9:33:03 AM PST by Fatalis
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To: iconoclast
It's perfect for me because he and his whole family are here illegally. I knew he wasn't a gang banger because his halo was blinding me. Per your request:


157 posted on 12/06/2004 9:38:08 AM PST by CaptainK
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To: AdamSelene235
"BTW, we aren't discussing a scientific matter here."

Reread my post #115. My background is physics and electronics.

If your background is physics....then don't leave your scientific training at the door when you approach socio-political-economic issues.

We get legislation drafted by politicians with ties to special interests, often influenced by ideology, who do not use the kind of logic and analysis required to do science or engineering when they formulate public policy.

You should not allow yourself to be manipulated by ideology. Try to address ALL the points raised in this thread.
158 posted on 12/06/2004 10:12:54 AM PST by Dat Mon (clever tagline under construction)
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To: Dat Mon
then don't leave your scientific training at the door when you approach socio-political-economic issues.

I'll pass on your invitation to scientism.

Recent philosophy manifests two tendencies, on the face of it radically opposed to each other, which both result in part from our adaptation to a "research ethic" more appropriate to the sciences than to the humanities: scientism, i.e., linking philosophy too closely, or inappropriately, to the sciences; and radical critique of the sciences as no more than ideology masked by rhetorical bullying in the form of appeals to "rationality," "objectivity," and so forth. The former is the effect of envy, the latter of resentment, of the success of the sciences. -Susan Haack

We get legislation drafted by politicians with ties to special interests, often influenced by ideology, who do not use the kind of logic and analysis required to do science or engineering when they formulate public policy.

LOL...I'll defer to Susan again.

One manifestation of science-envy is the mathematical or logical pseudo-rigor with which much recent philosophical writing is afflicted. This, to speak bluntly, is a kind of affected obscurity. Not that recourse to the languages of mathematics or logic never helps to make a philosophical argument or thesis clearer; of course, it does. But it can also stand in the way of real clarity by disguising failure to think deeply or critically enough about the concepts being manipulated with impressive logical sophistication. And it has come to be, too often, what Charles Sykes calls "Profspeak" -- using unnecessary symbols to convey a false impression of depth and rigor.

159 posted on 12/06/2004 10:31:23 AM PST by AdamSelene235
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To: AdamSelene235

You are missing my point...again.

Ive suggested that philosophy be logically consistent within itself. If you disagree with that position...find me a reputable and influencial philosopher who disagrees with that. At no point have I advocated pseudo-scientific 'philosophy', or as you refer to...as scientism.

I think logic and analysis is good. I like logic and reason. We want to use logic when we formulate public policy. I like to think rationally. If you disagree...then you are quite different than most of the physicists I have known.

But the basis of this discussion is not philosophy. That is YOUR schtick. Im trying to formulate a rational public policy.


160 posted on 12/06/2004 10:52:49 AM PST by Dat Mon (clever tagline under construction)
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