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To: scripter
Is the attraction issue a choice - it's complicated.

That's the main thing I don't buy about "Homosexuality is a choice". There are obviously people who are strongly physically attracted to members of their own sex. I have many faults but this is one problem I have never had.

I have a baby son. One day at the age of five months he was in the waiting room of a doctor's office and he was staring at a beautiful little blonde girl. When she left the room he burst into tears. When she came back he was all smiles. Since then he has often shown a flirtatious interest in girls. Similarly he is clearly interested in boy-type toys. He always lunges for channel changers. He likes it when male family members play a little roughly with him. He has no interest in the pink aisle at Toys-R-Us. As a number of people have pointed out, you can already tell that he will not turn out to be gay.

When I was young there was a little boy living next door to us who was often seen carrying dolls and had no interest in more typically male pursuits. You could tell that he would likely grow up to be gay. I have heard of other cases like this where these boys were followed until adulthood and did indeed turn out to be gay.

I don't know whether there are always signs of ultimate sexual identity in early childhood, but clearly this is often the case. Gay people I have known and accounts I have read describe very early preferences for members of the same sex. These people did not just "decide to adopt a lifestyle". The attraction was present first. It isn't necessarily sexual at first. When they were young they fell in love with members of the same sex.

Some people try to adopt a definition of homosexuality that says you are not gay if you do not engage in homosexual acts, even if you feel tempted. I don't think this is accurate. I would like to propose a clearer definition:

1. If you are sexually attracted only to members of the opposite sex, you are heterosexual.
2. If you are sexually attracted only to members of your own sex, you are gay.
3. If you are sexually attracted to members of both sexes, you are bisexual. This may occur in various degrees.

If someone claims to be an ex-gay and to no longer engage in homosexual behavior, but they still are sexually attracted to members of their own sex, they are still gay or bisexual.

It is my impression that people who say that being gay is just a choice probably feel attracted to their own sex to some degree. For truly heterosexual people this concept of being able to choose another sexual identity does not make any sense.

83 posted on 11/28/2004 2:51:47 PM PST by wideminded
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To: wideminded
Thanks for your post. It appears you may have some incorrect views of homosexuals, homosexuality and how many of the pieces fit together. It appears you've also stereotyped homosexuals.

The story of your son was great but it's not a testament to the who, what and why's of homosexuality. It's similar to this - When I tell people I'm color blind they start asking me "What color is this? What color is that?" Such questions do not determine color blindness.

I very much encourage you to read this article:

How Might Homosexuality Develop? Putting the Pieces Together

It is my impression that people who say that being gay is just a choice probably feel attracted to their own sex to some degree.

I wouldn't say that, not at all. In fact that's a talking point used by those pushing the homosexual agenda. There could be numerous reasons why people says it's a choice and none of them would match your above impression.

There are tens of thousands of former homosexuals, some of whom are listed in post 39. Read what they have to say about homosexuality and how they left the lifestyle, many of which have married (opposite sex partners).

84 posted on 11/28/2004 3:31:09 PM PST by scripter (Tens of thousands have left the homosexual lifestyle)
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To: wideminded
It is my impression that people who say that being gay is just a choice probably feel attracted to their own sex to some degree.

What? No, sorry. I am not attracted to other women at all but I think those who are attracted to the same sex CAN change. Personally, I view "being gay" the same as "being a pedophile" or "being a masochist" or "being a sexual sadist".

Pedophiles have strong, STRONG sexual desires that they can't seem to be rid of in spite of equally STRONG societal pressure. But it's not genetic. It is an attraction disorder, just like "homosexuals" have samesex attraction disorder. It is up to the individual whether or not they act on that attraction, but there is much more evidence that the disorder is primarily a result of environmental as opposed to genetic or inborn biological factors.

I've known several "sensitive little boys who played with dolls" who grew up, dated and married women, had kids and lived normal lives. I've known a lot of men who behaved in ways normally associated with "homosexuals" but these men were attracted to women and never had sex with other men.

In fact, I would say that how you treat a "sensitive little boy who plays with dolls" when he is a child may have something to do with what happens to him sexually as he gets older.

"Sensitive boys who play with dolls" are often teased and mistreated by the male figures in their lives, be they older brothers, peers or fathers. They may yearn for the love of another man. Perhaps it is much like little girls with distant or absent fathers, who then grow up to sleep with every man in sight, but "sluttishness" is not genetic. Along comes an older man, more than willing to show that "sensitive little boy" the love he thinks he has been missing. The "sensitive little boy" is quite the easy target. It's no wonder that the majority of male homosexuals were molested. It is also no wonder that the average male homosexual has far more sexual partners than the average heterosexual. It is no wonder that homosexual adoptive and foster parents are more likely to molest children in their care than heterosexual adoptive and foster parents.

I don't deny that for many homosexual men, the attraction they feel for other men is very strong and no amount of willpower ALONE can change it (although for some, therapy and prayer has helped them to become attracted to women as they naturally should be). I also don't deny that it is possible for homosexual men to display biological differences in the brain. Please do not forget that the brain changes depending on your activities and behavior through life.

But homosexual sex is ALWAYS a choice. And there are many people who have to deal with strong tendencies (pedophiles, alcoholics, abusers prone to violence, shoe fetishists, etc.), but no excuses are made for them.

86 posted on 11/28/2004 3:51:37 PM PST by DameAutour ("The dumber people think you are, the more surprised they're going to be when you kill them.")
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