Should The F-22 be cancelled?

Cancel it and build the UAVs

"The Air Force plans to procure 339 F/A-22s, and production is scheduled to run through 2013."

The government isn't going to cancel. At the most, they would curtail the number produced, but I think that is unlikely.

"For example, UAVs cannot engage in a dogfight with an enemy fighter plane or land safely on an aircraft carrier."
Our curernt fighers can blow things MILES AWAY. We should develop countermeasures for stand off weapons not buy. f-22.

What I'd love to see a high resolution quality photo of is one of the vast mother ships--the things 3 foot ball fields in diameter and larger--what some a mile in diameter or more.

One such larger than 3 aircraft carriers or thereabouts played cat and mouse with a JAL freighter 747--flying circles literally around it fore to aft, left to right etc near Alaska just before I went to China. Lots of data on that has come out since. Clearly a true happening.

I agree, it unlikely.Yet Rummy has not been a fan of this.

I get WEARY of smug . . . . arrogance pretending to be loftier than thou wisdom and omnicience. I don't know that you necessarily fall in that category or not.

No, no I do, indeed I do.

Part of me is beginning to think it's not lack of quality intel.

Supposedly we have capacities to see and hear virtually anywhere anyone knows something is as long as we know what we're looking for.

But what's allowed to be used by whom and reported to whom is beginning to look like a very different matter.

"Production of the F/A-22 and F-35 will go ahead."

Good show mate. I would bet a significant number of $ that Lockheed and its partners will solve all the weight/performance problems with the F-35 and it will proceed into full-scale production. (Just don't buy any cheap composite parts from Airbus Industrie.) Someone is feeding unconfirmed rumors to Pukin Dog, who is generally right about everything.

If so,

I leave you to our Lord Jesus on that score.

But I do feel constrained to be a bit of a watchman on the wall on a number of fronts and issues. I recognize that is a magnet for all sorts of responses.

Goes with the territory.

And I don't pretend to be near 100% right anywhere near 100% of the time.

I do claim to know more than 0.0000%.

I don't think we have the ability to hear human conversations anywhere. We can tap into a wireless or wireline phone conversation anywhere, but we can't hear voices on the ground yet. Al Qaeda has learned to stay out of sight of satellites and not talk on any kind of telephone or radio. They communicate by courier with hand-written messages. That's a tough nut to crack.

JANE'S DEFENCE WEEKLY - SEPTEMBER 22, 2004

Answers found to F-35 weight problem
MICHAEL SIRAK JDW Staff Reporter
Washington, DC

The US head of the multinational F-35 Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) programme said he is "cautiously optimistic" that engineers have identified ways to shed weight in the aircraft's design so that it will meet, if not exceed, all its performance requirements.

"We feel our proposed configuration is operationally viable," US Navy Rear Adm Steven Enewold, the F-35's programme executive officer, said on 14 September. The next step, he said, is for the senior acquisition oversight panel within the US Department of Defense (DoD) to review, and hopefully approve, the changes during a meeting scheduled for mid-October.

He did acknowledge, however, that an independent review team brought in to examine the programme regarded the weight as a "bigger" issue than the programme office sees it, although the team was complimentary about the aircraft's design.

Warning bells sounded within the programme late in 2003 when it emerged that the projected weight of the F-35B short take-off and vertical landing (STOVL) variant might hamper its ability to perform short take-offs and return to ship and land vertically when carrying ordnance and reserve fuel. The DoD slowed the pace of the JSF programme as a result so engineers could go back and study ways to improve the design.

Adm Enewold said they have identified changes that would remove 2,700 lb (1,224kg) from the aircraft and, together with proposals for improving propulsion efficiency, reducing drag and tweaking the way the aircraft is operated, would enable it to perform to specifications. These improvements would also cascade into the F-35A conventional take-off and landing (CTOL) variant and the F-35C navy carrier (CV) version, the designs of which have not had the same weight issues.

Tom Burbage, Lockheed Martin's JSF executive vice president and general manager of programme integration, said the design changes include improving engine inlet efficiencies and exit flows; reconfiguring how centre fuselage sections are mated; realigning wing spars more closely to allow for thinner wing skin; using a double door with the nose landing gear to reduce cross-wind effects and allow for a smaller vertical tail; creating a full-depth bulkhead in the weapons bay; using smaller sized batteries; and expanding the outer mould line of the aircraft to accommodate more fuel.

Engineers have also reverted to the original, smaller internal weapons bay design for the STOVL aircraft. It can accommodate two AIM-120 Advanced Medium-Range Air-to-Air Missiles (AMRAAMs) and two 1,000 Joint Direct Attack Munitions (JDAMs) as opposed to the larger bay resident in the CTOL and CV models that holds two AMRAAMs and two 2,000 lb JDAMs. Programme officials had planned for a time to use the larger bay in the STOVL model.

While the programme office awaits the DoD's approval for the changes, the air force is mulling STOVL design alterations of its own, like an internal gun and boom refuelling capability, as it considers what it wants in this variant. In February the service announced its intention to buy the STOVL jet as well as the CTOL version.

Gen Hal Hornburg, commander of Air Combat Command, said on 14 September the service would like to have both capabilities in the aircraft, but has been told it may face an 'either-or' situation. The STOVL design currently can carry only an external pod-mounted gun and is configured for hose and drogue refuelling.

Burbage and Adm Enewold said they are examining what would need to be done to accommodate the air force's wishes. Burbage told JDW that the service has indicated to him a keener interest in the internal gun. Fitting it would require reducing the aircraft's fuel capacity by about 700 lb, he said. Adding both the gun and boom receptacle would be "difficult", he noted.

Air Force Chief of Staff Gen John Jumper said the air force will probably buy the F-35B "in the hundreds" to populate dedicated close-air-support squadrons to support the US Army and US Marine Corps.

Lockheed Martin, along with industry partners BAE Systems and Northrop Grumman, is building the first test aircraft: a CTOL unit. The first flight is anticipated around August 2006.

Current unit cost estimates are $45 million for the CTOL model and $55 million to $60 million for the CV and STOVL variants, said Adm Enewold.

JANE'S DEFENCE WEEKLY - OCTOBER 13, 2004

JOINT STRIKE FIGHTER - Happily ever after?
Robert Hewson Editor Jane's Air-Launched Weapons

As Lockheed Martin's Joint Strike Fighter approaches production, questions still surround the programme, not least for the UK. Robert Hewson examines recent developments and problems on the horizon

The news from Fort Worth is that the design difficulties and performance worries that have been irritating Lockheed Martin's F-35 Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) partners have been solved, and official hopes for an October production clearance from the US Department of Defense are high.

Lockheed Martin wants to turn its attention towards JSF production, with work on major aircraft assemblies now well under way in the US and the UK. The first flight date for the first F-35 is set for August 2006 and, after a troublesome 12 months spent grappling with key design issues, the JSF would appear to be facing a brighter future. However, the dust from the crucial weight reduction work has yet to settle. In producing a design that now meets its desired Key Performance Parameters, Lockheed Martin has made some significant changes to the troubled F-35B Short Take-Off Vertical Landing (STOVL) variant that may yet fail to deliver everything its customers expect.

At the same time, the greatest JSF customer expectation of all - that of equal partnerships with meaningful industrial co-operation - is still largely unfulfilled. Important partner nations such as Australia, Denmark and Norway have all now expressed very public dissatisfaction at the hand they have been dealt by the JSF Programme Office. Nowhere are these concerns more keenly felt than in the UK, where the unresolved issues that still swirl around the JSF threaten to trip up the programme.

STOVL

Lockheed Martin's most important recent achievement has been the apparent elimination of much of the excess weight plaguing the STOVL design. This emerged as a serious concern in 2003 and the scale of the problem was the source of much speculation. When the actual figure of 3,300 lb overweight was made public (via a written answer to the UK House of Commons in May 2004) it drew a sharp intake of breath from most observers. Some of the worst-case guesses had been confirmed.

However, by early September Lockheed Martin was confident enough in the work undertaken by SWAT, its STOVL Weight Attack Team, to announce that 2,700 lb of "unwanted estimated weight" had been removed from the STOVL variant. Programme officials confirm that the 3,300 lb figure was accurate and that the 600 lb that appear to remain unaccounted for are absorbed by the extra margins the design team has set itself.

The overweight issue was tackled in several areas. One of these was a revision of some of the basic aircraft requirements. While this was described by a senior source as "a pragmatic review of the ground rules and assumptions originally made for the JSF," many outside the programme see the changes as a moving of the goal posts and wonder if the requirement has now been made to fit the aircraft, instead of the other way around. Tom Fillingham, vice president and deputy programme manager for the JSF at BAE Systems, told JDW that many of the assumptions made for the JSF were based on experiences with the Harrier and AV-8 - experiences found to be inapplicable to the new, more modern aircraft.

Fillingham says that 70% or 80% of the weight saving was achieved through a physical redesign that included the relocation of several internal elements within the STOVL airframe. The air inlet and engine nozzle designs were revised to gain extra effect from the 'installed thrust' of the engine, but the basic level of engine thrust has not been increased - contrary to several reports. Perhaps the most important change to the STOVL configuration is a reduction in the size of the aircraft's two internal weapons bays. The F-35B no longer has a common weapons bay with the ability to carry 2,000 lb-class weapons, such as the GBU-31 Joint Direct Attack Munition. Instead, it is now limited to two 1,000 lb weapons, plus an unchanged load of two AIM-120 Advanced Medium-Range Air-to-Air Missiles. As noted below, this is not a positive development for future F-35B operators.

One unexpected boost for the STOVL programme came from US Air Force (USAF) Chief of Staff Gen John Jumper, who announced in September that a possible USAF buy of STOVL aircraft, alongside its existing Conventional Take Off and Landing (CTOL) F-35As, could number "in the hundreds". Gen Jumper said that the F-35B would be an ideal close air support platform for the USAF and his comments followed earlier expressions of interest in the F-35B from Air Force Secretary James Roche. Such support for STOVL is warmly welcomed by the JSF team, coming as it does at a critical decision point for the programme. However, elsewhere it is largely dismissed as manoeuvring for which neither Roche nor Gen Jumper will ever have to sign a cheque. The USAF has nothing resembling either a budget or a concept of operations for a STOVL JSF.

The F-35B has received several other pats on the back of late. A Lockheed Martin press release of 14 September quoted Tom Burbage, company executive vice president and the general manager of JSF programme integration, saying: "The F-35 is now tracking ahead of its Key Performance Parameters, and past concerns about the aircraft's aerodynamic performance have diminished." This was the first time that Lockheed Martin had ever made reference to such aerodynamic performance worries - as distinct from the weight problems - and the question of exactly what was causing such concern was left hanging.

It may be that the JSF design team is now grappling with unexpected drag and other performance inhibitors. Tom Fillingham says that the STOVL redesign forced a trade-off between drag and low observability, and that tunnel testing is still underway to resolve this. He also notes that as the redesign has changed the outer mould line of the aircraft, drag figures in the supersonic and subsonic regimes have changed - but have not necessarily worsened across the flight envelope as a whole.

Within the UK there are several specific concerns around the JSF or JCA (Joint Combat Aircraft) as it is identified there - all of them serious. The doubts that still surround the future of the STOVL aircraft must cause the most worry, as the UK's future carrier plans are so firmly wedded to this variant. BAE's Fillingham believes this is not such a headache, saying: "STOVL selection is not an issue because we are building all three variants and we will provide whatever the customer wants." However, Fillingham underlines that the UK commitment to STOVL may not be total when he admits: "STOVL is not set in stone. Right now our current planning is for STOVL but we don't have a contract."

What lies ahead?

Fillingham confirms that BAE Systems is still planning for a UK buy of 150 aircraft, from the current anticipated US and UK production total of 2,593 JSFs. The figure of 150 JCAs has been used for BAE's costing proposals and industrial planning. This large number now seems wildly over-optimistic - especially when viewed in light of the future combat aircraft force figures released as part of July's defence cuts. The Tranche 2 funding crunch that has stalled the Eurofighter programme stands as a stark warning to what may lie ahead for the JSF.

The UK has already seen readjustments to its delivery and entry into service timetable as a result of the overall delays that have slowed the JSF's progress. Current plans call for the first UK order to be included in the Lot 3 low rate initial production (LRIP) order that is now scheduled for 2009. If it proceeds, this buy will include just two aircraft for the UK with first delivery to follow in late 2011 (delayed from 2010). If more parallels can be drawn from the Eurofighter experience this means that the UK will not have an operationally effective JCA force until 2015, at best.

Furthermore, there is a sizeable question mark over the UK operational road map for the JCA following the reduction in size of the aircraft's internal weapons bays. It is uncertain just how many of the UK's desired weapons options will now fit in the redesigned aircraft, but there are clearly some serious implications. This comes at a time when UK industry (led by MBDA Missile Systems) already faces an uphill struggle in convincing the US to integrate non-US systems in the first place.

It has not always been clear what variant of the JSF the UK will be supplied with as Lockheed Martin and the US government define the standards for the so-called International Partner Variants behind closed doors. Tom Fillingham says that his "understanding" is that the US and UK JSF variants are equivalent, adding: "The Joint Operational Requirements Document is a US/UK document. At an industrial level we are working to a joint US/UK requirement."

Technology transfer

Alongside the 'nuts and bolts' programme matters, the wider issues of technology access and insight remain the greatest hurdles to be overcome by the UK. There is widespread dissatisfaction within UK industry at how the US has controlled such access to date, even with non-classified data.

Meanwhile, agreement on fuller access to sensitive technology, needed to permit proper maintenance and logistics support for the future UK fleet, still remains unresolved. The UK's Secretary of State for Defence Geoff Hoon and Procurement Minister Lord Bach were involved in fiery transatlantic exchanges earlier this year, demanding that the US be more accommodating to its sole Level 1 partner (and investor) in the JSF programme.

So far, attempts to authorise a UK (and Australian) exemption to US ITAR (International Traffic in Arms Regulations) rules governing defence exports and industrial co-operation have proved fruitless. Talks on export reform have been underway in the US since 2000 but heightened concerns for national security have made the House less amenable then ever towards concessions. America's forthcoming elections have shifted any possible agreement well into 2005 - and the political climate that will follow those elections will bring a further effect that is as yet unknown.

The US authorities have not even specified exactly what they consider to be the sensitive elements involved with the aircraft, leaving partners such as the UK working in a vacuum and hoping for the best.

At the heart of the problem is a reluctance to concede foreign access to the internal workings and manufacturing processes of the JSF. Data that is crucial to maintenance and logistic support for the JSF may also reveal many of the aircraft's secrets. All the signs are that when the UK asks for such access it will not be granted willingly - leaving the UK authorities to ponder once more just what they are getting for their $2 billion stake in the programme.

BAE's Fillingham admits that it has not all been plain sailing. "We have seen some successes (with respect to technology access) and then there have been areas of difficulty. We have not been denied access to anything, but it has not been a straightforward process either. The fact is that it's US law and we just have to work within that," he says. "We have to demonstrate our worth every time." Commenting on recent public expressions of dissatisfaction from senior BAE Systems management, he adds: "If my bosses say there is a problem then there must be a problem."

'Answers found to F-35 weight problem' (JDW 22 September )

'Slimmed-down JSF back on track' (Jane's Navy International October 2004)

JSF - current delivery schedule

Development aircraft Delivery due

A1 (non-optimised CTOL) August 2006

B1 (optimised STOVL) mid-2007

A2 (optimised CTOL) late-2007

C1 (optimised CV) late-2008

Note: optimised aircraft incorporate SWAT redesign features.

I've assumed it was as you wrote.

But I wonder. I don't have enough puzzle pieces to say otherwise with any certainty at all. But I wonder. There have been bits and pieces--faint this's and that's that have intimated otherwise. And sometimes I wonder.

I have friends working in your State on the pipeline. 2 weeks on, 2 weeks off. I think one commutes to Prudehoe from Anchorage.

BTW, have you seen any interesting exotic craft in Alaska?

Its a good platform.

JANE'S DEFENCE WEEKLY - JUNE 02, 2004

Dawn rises for Raptor
MICHAEL SIRAK JDW Staff Reporter
Marietta,Georgia; Tyndall Air Force Base, Florida; and Washington, DC

Lockheed Martin and US Air Force (USAF) officials say they are working at a resolute pace to achieve the service's long-sought goal of having the F/A-22 Raptor multirole stealth fighter - the USAF's first new fighter design in about 25 years - ready for combat by the end of 2005.

Debates continue in some military and political circles over the Raptor's relevance and worth versus its price tag. However, Lockheed Martin officials say that developmental hurdles have been overcome and that a number of tasks are in progress to deliver the aircraft in time to meet the USAF's schedule.

"The programme is healthy, it's solid and it's moving forth with all the right vital signs," said Ralph Heath, Lockheed Martin's executive vice president and F/A-22 general manager.

The USAF says the aircraft is proving its merit in operational testing, which began on 29 April, and that it is impressing veteran fighter pilots who flew it in the evaluation trials at Edwards Air Force Base (AFB), California, and in training exercises at Tyndall AFB, Florida.

The Raptor's combination of advanced avionics, agility, robust sensors and around-the-clock stealth, as well as its ability to supercruise - to fly at supersonic speeds without afterburners - and a new paradigm in reliability, supportability and maintainability, will usher in a new way to conduct war from the air, USAF sources say.

"We're just scratching the surface of what this aircraft can do," said Lt Col Mike Stapleton, operations officer of the 43rd Fighter Squadron at Tyndall AFB. His unit is training a cadre of F/A-22 pilots, pilot instructors and maintainers with the first production-version Raptors coming from Lockheed Martin's production line in Marietta, Georgia.

USAF officials say, for example, that a single Raptor aircraft has been able to destroy multiple adversaries in mock engagements during operational trials. "We had five F-15 Eagles against one Raptor" in one exercise, Secretary of the Air Force James Roche said on 14 May. "The engagement was over in three minutes. None of the F-15s even saw the Raptor."

Raptor pilots are also discovering that attributes of the aircraft may change the manner in which they operate, said Col Stapleton, noting that they realise they have much more time to plot strategy and plan attacks since they receive an immediate consolidated picture of the battlespace via a single intuitive cockpit display that fuses all the aircraft's sensor data. In contrast, Col Stapleton said, the disparate sensors in legacy fighter cockpits demanded most of the pilot's attention just to acquire situational awareness.

The USAF intends to have two squadrons of Raptors - more than 50 aircraft including spare assets - operational around December 2005 at Langley AFB, Virginia. These aircraft will be able to engage aircraft and less-sophisticated cruise missiles with two AIM-9M Sidewinder missiles and up to six AIM-120C Advanced Medium-Range Air-to-Air Missiles (AMRAAMs), all carried internally. They will also be able to carry two 1,000 lb (454kg) Joint Direct Attack Munitions (JDAMs) in place of four AMRAAMs and deploy them at subsonic speeds. Software upgrades will allow for a 'supersonic drop' capability about one year later. The Raptor also carries an internal M61A2 gun with 480 rounds.

The aircraft will operate at around 45,000- 55,000ft at a speed of around M1.5 without the need for afterburners, according to the USAF. Top speed is expected to be about M2.

Service elite

As JDW went to press, five Raptors were at Tyndall, with an additional 18 expected there by the end of 2005. Col Stapleton said that Raptor pilots are being chosen initially from among the service's elite. They will undergo three months of operational conversion training to learn to fly the aircraft. New air force pilots, who will be phased in at later times, will undergo a five-month instructional programme. The USAF would like to achieve a pilot-to-aircraft ratio of three-to-two, he noted.

Lockheed Martin says that aircraft production continues to ramp up at its Marietta facility. As JDW went to press, the company had 25 Lot 2 and Lot 3 low-rate initial production (LRIP) aircraft on its manufacturing line with tail numbers 4031 to 4055. Eight more have come off the line but are awaiting modifications and checkout before flying to Tyndall.

The company is adapting the line to incorporate these modifications, which were identified after the delivery of the initial production-version aircraft. To date the upgrades have been carried out at Tyndall.

Lockheed Martin is under contract up to Lot 4 LRIP production, which will encompass 22 aircraft commencing with tail number 4062. Rob Weiss, Lockheed Martin's deputy vice president of F/A-22 customer requirements, said that the company is presenting its Lot 5 proposal to the USAF. The service wants to purchase 24 Raptors in this lot, contingent on the level of funding that the US Congress approves for the programme in Fiscal Year 2005.

Full-rate production is expected to start with Lot 7 at rates of 32 aircraft per year.

Lockheed Martin officials project that the aircraft's average unit flyaway cost will be $125 million with engines and sensors and avionics over the life of a 277-aircraft procurement. Costs are sinking as the production rates grow, the company said, noting that Lot 3 aircraft cost about $130 million apiece.

As work on the Raptor continues, Lockheed Martin is also offering F/A-22-derivative concepts to the USAF as part of a request for information (RfI) on a next-generation 'global strike/global persistent attack capability' that the service issued on 29 April.

This capability, which could be fielded as soon as 2015, would serve as an interim solution until a future long-range strike system comes along decades later.

The USAF had stated previously that an enticing option would be a medium-sized bomber aircraft with a range of around 1,600nm, a large payload capacity and the ability to penetrate enemy airspace, operate in it and defend itself from other aircraft and surface-to-air missile threats while it attacks its targets.

In 2002, Lockheed Martin unveiled a concept, at the request of Secretary Roche, for a medium-sized bomber called the FB-22. While leveraging the Raptor's avionics, communications suite and radar, it featured a longer fuselage and delta wings (JDW 25 February 2004, 12 March 2003 and 29 May 2002). The FB-22 has a larger internal weapons bay for up to 30 Small Diameter Bombs (SDBs) compared with the eight that the Raptor will carry.

J R McDonald, Lockheed Martin's F/A-22 programme director, said that the company is presenting options in response to the RfI that maintain the Raptor's stealth and speed while potentially sacrificing some agility in favour of a larger payload capacity. These concepts are not limited to the original FB-22 proposal, he said. They include single- and two-seat aircraft with delta-wing and diamond-shaped- wing configurations. Options include longer bomb bays or converting the Raptor's side internal missile bays to carry SDBs.

There is also a concept that entails creating a low-observable bulge in the doors of the Raptor's main internal weapons bay underneath the centre fuselage so that the aircraft could carry two 2,000 lb (908kg) JDAMs.

This form of procurement is the future.

thx

JANE'S DEFENCE WEEKLY - AUGUST 25, 2004

Northrop to build X-47B combat drone prototypes
ANDREW KOCH JDW Bureau Chief
Washington, DC
Additional Reporting Michael Sirak JDW Staff Reporter
Washington, DC

Northrop Grumman assured its place in the battle for the US version of an unmanned combat air vehicle (UCAV) on 18 August when it received more than $1 billion in funding to build three prototypes of its X-47B.

The contract, from the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA), is for a Northrop-led team to develop and flight-test at least three full-scale flight-prototypes over the next five years.

Northrop is joined in the effort by Lockheed Martin and Pratt and Whitney. Boeing is already developing another UCAV called the X-45C under the same DARPA-led operational assessment phase of the Joint Unmanned Combat Air System (J-UCAS) demonstration programme.

The J-UCAS is intended to field a stealthy UCAV with integrated sensors, navigation and communications capable of operating in the network-centric battlefield expected to emerge in the coming years. Key missions envisioned for the vehicles include suppression of enemy air defences, the ability to conduct surveillance deep into an enemy's denied airspace and precision-strike.

The vehicles, capable of operating from land bases or aircraft carriers, will have a combat radius of 1500nm, a weapons payload of 2025kg, an electronic warning system and integrated synthetic aperture radar.

In a related effort, the US Air Force's SensorCraft technology development programme plans to conduct a demonstration of an X-band radar antenna panel that is integrated into the structure of the J-UCAS air vehicle.

The initiative, dubbed the X-band Thin Radar Array advanced technology demonstration, envisages an operational assessment around 2007 of a 4ft2 (1.2m2) radar panel that will probably be integrated on both the Boeing and Northrop Grumman air vehicles, an air force official said.

JANE'S DEFENCE WEEKLY - SEPTEMBER 22, 2004

AFA show: Lockheed Martin discloses interim strike options
Michael Sirak JDW Staff Reporter
Washington, DC

Lockheed Martin offered four long-range strike options earlier this year in response to the US Air Force's (USAF's) request for information on the technologies that could be available around 2015 for fielding by 2025, senior company officials told JDW.

In addition to a bomber derivative of its F/A-22 Raptor multirole stealth fighter aircraft, known as the FB-22, the company submitted a concept for a C-130-based 'arsenal ship' before the end of May but has discussed it only now.

It also offered a small, expendable space launch vehicle (SLV) that carries munitions in a common air vehicle (CAV) dispenser and a bomber variant of its next-generation multirole MACK aircraft design, dubbed BMACK, said Al Joersz, director of business strategy and development within the company's Skunkworks Advanced Development Programmes division.

John Perrigo, the company's senior manager for combat air systems business strategy and development, said the arsenal ship is the lowest-risk option and would require "almost no developmental costs" since the company already has explored the standoff missile option for Australia and the UK. The modified C-130 would be able to carry eight extra-large cruise missiles or greater numbers of missiles in the size class of the AGM-158 Joint Air-to-Surface Stand-off Missile, he said.

While the C-130 variant would be for standoff engagements, the BMACK is envisaged for penetrating enemy airspace via its stealth attributes and additional survivability features to attack with precision-guided munitions and directed-energy weapons, said Joersz. The USAF has already told Lockheed Martin that it has doubts that the BMACK concept could be ready for development by 2015 "in an affordable way without high risk", said Perrigo.

The SLV-CAV system would leverage the company's work on the air force Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency's Force Application and Launch from the Continental US programme.

The company's FB-22 data showed how changes could be made affordably to the Raptor to increase its range, payload capacity and survivability. USAF and Lockheed Martin officials have said in the past this could include delta-wing designs, two-seat cockpits and weapon bays for about 30 Small Diameter Bombs.

Boeing and Northrop Grumman also provided feedback and offered options ranging from upgraded B-1B and B-2A bomber aircraft to SLV-CAV systems and larger versions of the X-45 and X-47 Joint-Unmanned Combat Air Systems air vehicles that they are developing for the USAF and US Navy.

Joersz said the company did not offer an unmanned combat air vehicle option independently because it is part of Northrop Grumman's X-47 team and the latter provided that information in its own response.

Secretary of the Air Force James Roche said on 13 September that the air force remains interested in a system for fielding between 2020 and 2025. The system would have a reach of 2,500nm - roughly equivalent to the B-2A bomber - and would be stealthy, able to defend itself and could carry enough lethality to attack moving targets and certain types of hardened and deeply buried facilities.

I haven't personally seen any UFO's or futuristic military test aircraft if that's what you're referring to. I would agree that we have great capability to gather intelligence when we know where to look and what to look for. Our intelligence operatives can probably bug a room in less than a minute and record all conversations from a safe distance. DARPA is studying the mechanics of insect flight so we can develop electronic bugs that actually look and fly like real bugs. It can all drive you buggy if you think about it too much.