Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

To: FreedomSurge; ninenot; sittnick; steve50; Hegemony Cricket; Willie Green; Wolfie; ex-snook; FITZ; ..
Remind me. Don't the Catholic areas of Ukraine have strong ties to Poland?

Yes and no. The ones with the Polish ethnic population were the most Polish parts of Poland. But the ones with the Catholic Ukrainian population (primarily Uniates or Greek Catholics) were the hotbeds of Ukrainian nationalism - anti-Polish, pro-German/pro-Austrian, anti-Russian (in that order).

In the last generation Ukrainian nationalism of this variety spread from the west toward the center of Ukraine. Still the center being primarily Orthodox and so tied by the history and religion with Moscow remains less nationalistic. The east follow old Ukrainian way which is to be close to Russia.

Present rise of the pro-Western activists is an expression of the EU attraction. Many young Ukrainians dream about affluence of Western Europe and Soros related inspiration guides them into Serbia/Georgia "otpor" style "liberation".

The old guard derived from the Soviet time bureaucracy is in defensive and turmoil. It either tries to appease/please West (that is why despite the previous election promises Kuchma/Yanukovich did not restore the Russian language to the official position) or tries to lean on the new Russian leadership (Putin feels happy to oblige). But for the second option pro-Russian moods would have to be stronger (at least 2/3 of population instead of present 50-45%) and Soros style Western pressure weaker.

It is fascinating to watch the estetics/appearance/mechanics of the Serbia/Georgia method of elite replacement. Sleek methods of crowd psychology are being used, the excitement of the new beginnings, colorful logos, catchy inane slogans, gestures, hypnotic repetitions by the media. Truly something from the Brave New World or the foretaste of Antichrist.

149 posted on 11/24/2004 4:59:50 AM PST by A. Pole ("For the love of money is the root of all evil" -- II Timothy 6:10)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 117 | View Replies ]


To: A. Pole

Facinating. Thank you for the reply.


171 posted on 11/24/2004 9:42:30 AM PST by FreedomSurge
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 149 | View Replies ]

To: A. Pole

Your post #149 is a good description of the situation there.

The general tone of remarks in this thread is to make the events in Ukraine into a Putin-Soros battle; if you side against one you must obviously be in league with the other. If you side with Yushchenko, you must obviously want Soros to rule the world, and you have sold your soul to the antiChrist; and if you favor Yanukovich, you must want a communist takeover.

Since I, as far as I know, am neither in league with the devil nor a secret Bolshevik (unless I'm such a secret member even I don't know it), and since I have no personal knowledge of the situation on the ground, I have to make my decision on something less than complete knowledge.

For me, its fairly simple; Russian troops have no business in the Ukraine. Thats the litmus test. After that, its up to the Ukrainians themselves to battle it out. I understand its complex, a good part of the country is evidently pro-Russia and would seek union with Moscow if they could; the other part is nationalist Ukrainian, westward-leaning,and would seek union with the EU if they could.

Since the two halves of the country are fairly evenly divided, it may be tempting for one or the other to steal the election, and that may have to be decided in the streets. But except for perhaps providing security for Russian installations in the country, Russian troops have no business in those streets.

The presence of Russian troops suggests they are there to enforce a stolen election. If it were an honest election, and the Yushchenko crowd were trying to steal it by steet violence, Uk troops could put down the rebellion. If Kuchma isn't putting his own troops into the streets, it must be that he doesn't trust them to remain neutral, or even to back the government. The presence of foreign troops is a red-flag to me.


208 posted on 11/24/2004 2:54:18 PM PST by marron
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 149 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson