Posted on 11/23/2004 5:56:02 PM PST by wagglebee
""Gee, why didn't' the Kerryites think of that? After all, early exit polls in the U.S. showed the Democratic candidate as the putative winner: on election day in the U.S., rumors of Kerry's imminent victory were spurred by (possibly biased?) reporting based on the preliminary numbers that were coming in. According to the "logic" employed by Yushchenko and his Western supporters including the EU, the OSCE, and U.S. government officials (and the White House) this means Kerry is the actual winner of the November election, and a usurper sits in the Oval Office.""
The EU& Soros helped him win and he will not bite his master's knarled claw, pointed tail or craven hoof.
"The result was obvious: Exit polls (more accurate in Ukraine than when our own TV networks do them) showed Yushchenko winning by more than 10 points. But the final results announced by the government, which supported Yanukovich, showed a small margin in favor of the Russian-backed candidate. "
Ya know, this sounds just like the DU when talking about Nov 2. We need a little more to go on than big protests and exit polls.
Yeah, that's what I thought when I read it. :P
Russia would love to turn the Commonwealth Of Independent States into a Slavic United States. Belarus wants to rejoin Mother Russia. With sufficient inducements, Russia hopes to persuade Ukraine to do the same.
The split is religious as well as linguistic. The East is overwhelmingly Russian Orthodox; the West is overwhelmingly Roman Catholic. So there are tensions that go back centuries to the conflict between Byzantine Orthodox missionaries and those of the Catholic Church in Slavic lands. Czechoslovakia, Poland, Hungary and the western part of the Ukraine became Catholic - the rest of Eastern Europe and Russia became Orthodox.
Dude, you need to take an extra-strength chill pill. I realize that you are, at heart, a totalitarian who is unable to handle dissent, but you've managed to elevate mere opposition to your treasonous agenda of imposing an authoritarian government on the United States into proof of...treason. That kind of goofy thinking is best left to the Democrats.
Actually, I don't think you to be treasonous. I just consider you to be a liberal troll who's trying to pass himself off as a conservative, but only manages to look like a caricature of one.
Yes and no. The ones with the Polish ethnic population were the most Polish parts of Poland. But the ones with the Catholic Ukrainian population (primarily Uniates or Greek Catholics) were the hotbeds of Ukrainian nationalism - anti-Polish, pro-German/pro-Austrian, anti-Russian (in that order).
In the last generation Ukrainian nationalism of this variety spread from the west toward the center of Ukraine. Still the center being primarily Orthodox and so tied by the history and religion with Moscow remains less nationalistic. The east follow old Ukrainian way which is to be close to Russia.
Present rise of the pro-Western activists is an expression of the EU attraction. Many young Ukrainians dream about affluence of Western Europe and Soros related inspiration guides them into Serbia/Georgia "otpor" style "liberation".
The old guard derived from the Soviet time bureaucracy is in defensive and turmoil. It either tries to appease/please West (that is why despite the previous election promises Kuchma/Yanukovich did not restore the Russian language to the official position) or tries to lean on the new Russian leadership (Putin feels happy to oblige). But for the second option pro-Russian moods would have to be stronger (at least 2/3 of population instead of present 50-45%) and Soros style Western pressure weaker.
It is fascinating to watch the estetics/appearance/mechanics of the Serbia/Georgia method of elite replacement. Sleek methods of crowd psychology are being used, the excitement of the new beginnings, colorful logos, catchy inane slogans, gestures, hypnotic repetitions by the media. Truly something from the Brave New World or the foretaste of Antichrist.
You need to remember that Ukrainian emigrees from WWII, prominent in Canada are not typical Ukraninians. Many of them come from Lwow (Lvov) area and were engaged in very specific type of politics. Center and especially east of Ukraine is VERY, VERY different.
And do not fool yourself - the present honeymoon of Galicia (Lvov) nationalists with the powers of Sorosian "otpor" will get sour sooner or later. Look at Serbia and Georgia.
If you don't know what you are replying to, don't.
Sorry for the moron comment. I was testy.
Ukraine is to Russian as Dutch is to German.
Maybe at the extremities (L'viv vs. Ahrkangelsk and Amsterdam vs. Vienna) some difference can be discerned, but where the two meet they are indistinguishable.
I think I follow your logic. All exit polls are either crooked or they are honest -- but you can't have one that is true and another that is false. Is that your reasoning?
Otpor is not strong enough here. Not yet. Do not miss it:
Newman did.
To Kramer.
Yuk! He looks like a character from That Hideous Strength by CS Lewis. A must read!!! You can read more reviews and purchase it at Amazon.com: Books: THAT HIDEOUS STRENGTH
Interesting. Thank you for posting.
Problem is od boy that when you cannot see properly... you are not alawys able to be absolutely certain what you just read. Anyway, apology for the moron comment accepted by a half blind old coot.
I wish Morris would tell us why exit polls in Ukraine are more accurate there than here.
My gut reaction, from what I've heard from Ukrainians, is that Morris it right and that Yushchenko is the rightful winner. But I'd like to see some harder evidence than exit polls. (E.g., show the mechanics of how Putin stole the election -- if he did.)
Good heavens, he looks like he's had smallpox. Some post last night was linking the way his skin is to a poisoning incident in September. And we thought our elections were stressful.....
Prairie
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