Posted on 11/23/2004 4:38:52 PM PST by ModelBreaker
From: Bob Schaffer
Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2004 12:10 PM
Friends: some of you know I am in Ukraine as an election monitor. The presidential election was Sunday. There was rampant cheating and falsification reported throughout the country. I can't go into all details of election. I'm using a blackberry to communicate with lots of USA people, news agencies and Ukrainians. Please check news sources on the Ukrainian election background if you're not familiar. Also, I'll be regularly updating the Denver Post. They're setting their web site to post my updates.
Here's the latest:
Russian special forces dressed in Ukrainian Special forces uniforms are in Kyiv. Ukrainian militia have been instructed by the mayor to protect the people from the Russian troops. Ukrainian militia have established a hotline for Ukrainians to report any incidents with the Russians and pledged to protect Ukrainians. These Russians flew into Ukraine this morning. They're now surrounding the administration buildings they say "to protect Kuchma (the outgoing president and his PM Yanukovich). Following is a chain of email messages I've been sending by blackberry. Please pass along to others. Bob Schaffer
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PETER: PLEASE SEE UPDATES BELOW. GETTING QUITE SERIOUS NOW. OUR EMBASSY'S PHONES ARE DOWN AND WE'RE NOT SURE THEY'RE AWARE OF THE NEWS OF RUSSIANS (SEE BELOW). YES, PLEASE SEND INFO TO ANYONE YOU CAN, ESPECIALLY PRESS. BOB
---------- Dan: is there anything you can do to alert someone in the Denver media to look at news coming out of Ukraine? I know this isn't our normal "beat," but this seems quite serious here. I'll paste below a message I just sent to a ukrainian group. I've been updating several people by blackerrying them events from the street and from the local news. Bob
---------- Yes. I'm safe for now. Demonstrators are reassembling in Kyiv. They're coming back stronger than yesterday coming in from the rest of the country. The authorities are trying to stop them. Cars and busses are being stopped by police at the outskirts of the city. The authorities have scattered road spikes on inbound lanes to stop traffic/protesters. People are walking down the highways to protest. Trains into the city have been stopped.
The parliament is meeting now but without the president's supporters or the Communists. After several speeches, they called Yushchenko to the podium to swear him in as the new president (escorted to the podium with guards). The Rada Speaker Litvin walked out. Then the TV station (only one station covers anything about the election and it only covers 30% of the country) went off then cut to news and footage from earlier in the day. This is similar to the revolution in Georgia.
It seems the opposition has now claimed control of the parliament and most likely named Yushchenko as the president. He walked to the podium with a Bible and a copy of the oath in his hand. 300,000 pro-Yushchenko supporters are in the city square and watched what I described above on a jumbo TV. They're celebrating what they believe is their new president. Provocateurs are infiltrating the crowd. Special forces are said to be moving in to disband the crowd. This is now a clearly declared revolutionary effort. A confrontation seems unavoidable now.
It's very tense here. School has been cancled (again) for tomorrow. I'll report more as I learn it.
Now we hear Yushchenko is headed to the city center to address the masses. His lieutenants will be giving instructions to the people outside the Rada building on "what to do."
Telephones in the outlying towns have been shut off.
Now we hear there are Russians in Ukrainian special forces uniforms.
I'll report more as I learn it. May God bless and protect Ukraine and her people.
A representative of the Greek Catholic Church (a man who appeared to be a priest -- dressed as one) announced at the demonstration that he was speaking on behalf of the Greek Catholic Churchn the Kyiv Patriarchiat and several Protestant denominations (Lutheran was the only specific one I heard but there were several others). He said this coalition of churches recognizes Yushchenko as president.
Yuschenko is now leading 1 million people from the square and surrounding streets to the administration headquarters of the Ukrainian government. He is in front of the column and many fear he is vulnerable to getting shot. They should be at the steps in 15 mins. Keep in mind, this is where the Russian special forces are stationed, dresses in Ukrainian garb.
If violence comes to define this revolution it will likely be within minutes.
The Georgian President (surrounded by Orthodox priests) just appeared on Ukrainian TV congratulating and encouraging the opposition supporters and "President" Victor Yushchenko. He spoke in Ukrainian which is very significant.
The Russian special forces just stopped the crowd approaching the administration headquarters.
Bob
Sent via BlackBerry
Methinks someone is losing it completely.
I'm afraid I don't follow your post, but I am interested in understanding your points if you care to elaborate...
[Soros] I'm in a trap. The people who will buy the shares will make an undoubted profit. But I have no other choice, since the value of the shares will keep falling. For me to sell the holding at its realistic price, the company needs to be privatized. But the state won't take any steps in that direction as long as I have any connection with it.
It's becoming increasingly obvious that Mr Putin doesn't like me and that he doesn't like the activities of our foundations, especially in Ukraine and Moldova, to say nothing of Georgia. That is the explanation for the campaign he has mounted on the occasion of my current visit.
Even so, I don't regard today's Russia as a repressive regime. Putin really is very popular. But the characteristic features of an open society are lacking in that country. There is no supremacy of the law. It is replaced by a dictatorship of the law, and there is no parliamentary opposition.
Do you live in Minnesota?
The media is not reporting troops sneaking in from Russia - they are reporting that the opposition is saying that - the good news reports do - the tabloids of course will just report the rumor as fact.
That is how meda can be manipulated by powerful advocacy forces. Saw them do the exact same thing over Bosnia and Kosovo and Kuwait (remember the baby incubator nonesense?).
the media is reporting russian troops and russian tanks going into ukraine.
Post the link - I call your bluff.
Perhaps I misunderstood yours. I merely point out that some forms of resistance may abet what you oppose. Is Anti-Soviet prejudice-mutating-into-anti-Orthodox-prejudice an example of that?
1. Orthodox Christianity is transforming Russia, bringing her back to her Orthodox Christian roots, and that
2. Russia, long before being temporarily hijacked by communism for 8 decades, had been an implacable foe of Islamic expansionism, fighting to keep Islam in line along her lengthy borders for nearly a millenium.
By contrast, Western Europe has proven herself incapable either of preserving traditional Christianity in ANY form, and incapable of dealing with Islam, whether from afar (in the war on terror), or nearby (in their disastrous decision to side with Islam in the Balkans against Orthodox Christian Serbia), or within their own borders (dealing with out-of-control and increasingly aggressive Muslim immigrants.)
I believe that militant secularism and Islamic expansionism are the two biggest threats to the preservation of liberty and sanity here in the US.
Why any right-thinking person would reflexively believe that attempting to remake Ukraine into the image of France is somehow better for America than is allowing her to stay within the Russian general sphere of influence is beyond me.
I have no idea who "really" won the election in the Ukraine. But neither does anyone else on this board. Those who claim to know that the election was fixed are largely speaking out of their anti-Russian prejudices.
George Soros wouldn't have poured millions into the campaign of the opposition if he wasn't reasonably assured that it would further his overall strategy to secularize Eastern Europe into his leftist image.
America needs to stay out of this, just as staying out of the Balkans would have put us miles ahead in the war against Islamic expansionism and aggression.
maybe the troops are there to "help recount the votes"
Something to think about. I'll ping your informative response to the geopolitical spin sleuths.
This is old news and appears to be incorrect.
Here is the current news, Nov. 27 -- and Russian troops still aren't there.
Ukraine Parliament Calls Election Invalid
http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=285916
"Ukraine's parliament on Saturday declared invalid the disputed presidential election that triggered a week of growing street protests and legal maneuvers, raising the possibility that a new vote could be held in this former Soviet republic.
The Unian news agency quoted Russian Foreign Ministry spokesman Alexander Yakovenko as saying Friday that Moscow regarded a potential revote favorably an apparent significant retreat from its earlier insistence that the Nov. 21 elections were fair and valid. "
Mostly agree, but this might be one last time that Powell's kind of mediation (ONLY mediation) could put us in the right position.
That said, If good offices cannot relieve the situation, and I doubt they would succeed, we stand away and allow the locals to sort it out.
I also agree with the theory that Islam has bent it's pick in the former Soviet Union and given their own resources people will fight back. That in my mind goes to support the 'pro-Russian' side and not anyone associated with France et al.
And, yes, I did think the original sky-is-falling report was bunk.
I meant to flag you to reply # 209.
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