Replies

No, they aren't. There is a voluntary program in place by which they can check employees, and it should be made mandatory. Sure they are. Whenever they hare someone they are required to get a valid Social Security number from that employee. If you have a valid SSN then you should be able to legally hold a job in the US. Fraudulent and stolen SSNs are commonly used, but any form of ID is likely going to be able to be faked. Sure it will, because when they check, they and the authorities will all know that there is an illegal alien in their employ, and the atuhorities will know that the employer knows it. Convictions would be a slam dunk in that case, unlike now, where employers have plausibile deniability. A better check will disuade some employers from looking the other way when they are suspicious of the ID. However, a large percentage of the illegals are employed by employers that are aware they are illegal and don't care, and merely cover up that fact. Right now they cover it up by using a stolen SSN or paying them off the books. If a better check is used, they'll have to use better fake identification, or pay more of them off the books. It catches more and disuades more. It's likely a good idea, but it's not enough to have a large scale effect. Some will leave, and some won't. More will leave under the Tancredo plan than under the Bush plan, which rewards lawbreaking. Why would they leave voluntarily when they have nothing to go back to. Leaving takes away their livlihood. I like Tancrendo's plan with te exception of requiring all illegals currently in the US to return home. I just don't think there's a realistic chance of it working with that stipulation. No damned kidding. That's why they need to be provided with incentives to self-deport, and negative consequences if they don't. What kind of incentives can we offer for them to leave? The only thing we could really offer is a quick return as a guest worker, while barring them if we catch them here illegally. I doubt we'll have the resources to quickly process applications for guest worker status, so it's would likely be a false promise, but even if we did what's the point. If we're just going to offer to let them return quickly, why are we having them leave? We'd just be doing it for the symbolic purpose of saying we didn't reward them. If you can think of other things we can offer them to return and wait to be given legal permission to return I'd like to hear them. I just don't think we have anything we can offer them that would convince them to take the risk of returning to Mexico. Their comfort is their problem. It's always inconvenient for tresspassers and squatters to have to clear out. So what? Do you really think that tossing these people out with no concern for how it effects them will fly in the US? Removing that many people who are desperate to stay would in effect take military type action on US soil. We'd have human right activists from all over the world going crazy. Support for such action in the US would dissappear almost instantly. America doesn't have the stomach for such action. It won't happen. If you know it won't happen, you need to pick a different plan. So, what possible objection do you have to implementing a program to encourage self-deportation? I have absolutely no objection to an effective program that encourages self-deportation. Show me a plan that offers illegal immigrants something that will convince them to self-deport, and I'll be happy to support it.

Whenever they hare someone they are required to get a valid Social Security number from that employee. If you have a valid SSN then you should be able to legally hold a job in the US. Fraudulent and stolen SSNs are commonly used, but any form of ID is likely going to be able to be faked.

Right now the law is unenforcable because verification isn't mandatory. You do know this, don't you?

If a better check is used, they'll have to use better fake identification, or pay more of them off the books. It catches more and disuades more. It's likely a good idea, but it's not enough to have a large scale effect.

How do you know that until it's been tried?

On the other hand, legalizing illegal aliens has been tried on four previous occasions, and the result has always been more illegal aliens than at the outset. The Bush plan is more of what's failed in the past.

Why would they leave voluntarily when they have nothing to go back to. Leaving takes away their livlihood. I like Tancrendo's plan with te exception of requiring all illegals currently in the US to return home. I just don't think there's a realistic chance of it working with that stipulation.

Again, Tancredo's is the only guest worker oprogram that doesn't repeat the failed mistake of legalizing illegal aliens. We know that approach doesn't work, so why are you fired up to do it again?

Illegal aliens will leave because their previous employers will be less willing to keep them on, when there is an increased risk of prosecution and a legal source of inexpensive labor as an alternative.

Self deportation will work, the only question is how much, and what will need to be done to enhance the effect a few years down the road.

What kind of incentives can we offer for them to leave? The only thing we could really offer is a quick return as a guest worker, while barring them if we catch them here illegally.

Yes, that's it exactly.

On the other hand, the Bush plan rewards lawbreaking, with no guarantee that the very people who don't enforce the law now will enforce it in the future.

While you have only speculation about the possibility for success of self deportation, there is ample experience that the Bush plan will only encourage more illegal aliens.

Do you really think that tossing these people out with no concern for how it effects them will fly in the US?

Yes, it will absolutely fly, because they will be given ample warning to leave and a means of getting in line to enter legally.

The Bush plan rewards illegal aliens and gives them advantages over law abiding guest worker applicants. Do you really expect that to fly, especially knowing that legalizaing illegal aliens always always exacerbates the problem?

I have absolutely no objection to an effective program that encourages self-deportation. Show me a plan that offers illegal immigrants something that will convince them to self-deport, and I'll be happy to support it.

You've been shown.

Why do you prefer legalization, which is guaranteed to fail?